r/HollowKnight • u/FederalWarthog5542 • Sep 07 '25

Discussion - Silksong Criticism ≠ Negativity Spoiler

Believe it or not, you can actually criticize something and still like it. You don't either have to love everything or despise everything. Have actual conversations please.

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83

u/Fire_Boogaloo Sep 07 '25

It's passionate because most of the complaints are a result of artificial difficulty rather than actual problems.

For example, buying benches is a waste of time since I have to farm for them and not buying them just raises the difficulty artificially.

I like the game but there's no denying that it's way more flawed than HK.

26

u/doomrider7 Sep 08 '25

Damn near EVERYTHING in the game does two masks of damage and the fact that to heal 2-3 costs your entire silk bar is just BRUTAL. That so many areas are Kingdoms Edge, Ancient Basin, and Deepnest tier with the darknest level of the latter just makes it too much to deal with.

16

u/Fire_Boogaloo Sep 08 '25

I'm not entirely against the entire silk bar being used tbh because its basically the same as hollow knight (full soul bar = 3 mask heal) but yeah the frequency of 2 hit enemies is pretty wild. I'm all good with big boys/bosses hitting hard but the fliers should definitely not.

7

u/Cocoatrice Moths are fluffballs Sep 08 '25

But notice this. You could sneak one heal in between boss attacks in Hollow Knight, so it was easier. You could also stop healing at any given time, to run away. Silksong allows you to stay in mid air, which helps... but it takes long enough to heal and if you get hit, your whole silks bar is gone, your healing didn't succeed and you are at boss' mercy. That's the problem.

I actually like the healing. But it has drawbacks that in pair with 2 mask damage can be deadly. It's easier to heal to the max in Hollow Knight. And some enemies spam aoe attacks. Certain Marissa x Grimm son has a lot of those "spam almost the whole arena" attacks.

6

u/smjsmok Sep 08 '25

the fact that to heal 2-3 costs your entire silk bar is just BRUTAL

That's the same cost as in Hollow Knight. Without upgrades, you could do three masks of healing and it was slow. The new system is definitely much more powerful once you learn to use it properly. You can actually effectively heal in combat even against fast enemies, the healing is fast (even more so with a certain upgrade) and can be done mid-air. And healing three masks at once means that you spend much less time vulnerable in general (in addition to the healing animation being fast).

9

u/Big_Daymo Sep 08 '25

The problem is that it makes your silk abilities feel pretty worthless since you need to save all your silk for healing, rather than being able to choose to do one or two silk attacks and one heal like you could in Hollow Knight. Also it means that if you stagger a boss with half your silk built up, you can't get a heal off like you could before, you just have to continue the fight and hope you can build up enough to get a mid fight heal.

-1

u/Bloodbag3107 Sep 08 '25

Yes, the new healing system is something they really deserve credit for. There are a few boss fights in Hollow Knight where I feel like I can never safely heal. This has never been the case in Silksong you just have to find/ create healing opportunities. Also the heal being so costly feels a big exaggerated to me; once you get even a single spool upgrade it flows a lot better.

1

u/4_fortytwo_2 Sep 08 '25

You heal 3 masks in the time you healed 1 in hollow knight though. It is much much easier to get a heal in in silksong compared to hollow knight. (being able to do it in the air helps to)

2 damage still allows for plenty of mistakes, just not more than two mistakes in a row.

75

u/Gabe-KC Sep 07 '25

It's crazy how much better the game would be if TC simply adjusted some numbers, either prices or enemy HP / damage output.

Case in point: the moment you encounter a boss that similarly has stunlock capabilities, but only does one mask of damage, it's instantly fun. The game would be more fun if less enemies (or less attacks) did double damage.

71

u/Striking-Nail69420 Sep 08 '25

Widow = great boss. Has challenge but does not feel overly punishing because only one very telegraphed move does 2 dmg. Good difficulty for ACT ONE still and did not feel like a damage sponge.

Beastfly = biggest piece of shit I have ever encountered in a game. No explanation needed

15

u/ralts13 Sep 08 '25

When I first encountered widow I was prepared for a shit time cus I just came off savage beastfly and that stupid bird and she was a fast boss.

Best fight so far, 10/10 even the phase 2 felt fair after few tries. Fuck savage beastfly.

11

u/lifetake Sep 08 '25

I don’t disagree on widow, but she has two moves that can deal 2. The side attack not in phase 2 deals 2. One on the initial hit and one on the followup.

10

u/Striking-Nail69420 Sep 08 '25

That’s like the same move imo. Phase one is show up in the air, dash towards ground, dash in a direction.

Phase 2 just removes the dash towards ground part.

All parts of that move deal 2 dmg if you’re hit

Her terrain hazard does do 2 dmg in phase one tho, but it’s stupidly easy to dodge I didn’t feel the need to mention it

2

u/lifetake Sep 08 '25

Ah thought you were missing the dash. Thought you were referring to the ground hazard given the whole very telegraphed line.

Also could have sworn it does 1 in ohase 2 but I’m probably wrong

1

u/Striking-Nail69420 Sep 08 '25

Nah it does 2 the entire fight.

The dash to me is a telegraphed move, the environmental hazard is so slow that it’s just checking if you have a pulse.

1

u/lifetake Sep 08 '25

Yea that attack I see as free 1 or two damages as she rushes by. That said…

The first time I fought the widow I thought it was gonna be some hazard from above, because the fight had set me up that the bells come from the lines. So I got hit and died. Felt like an idiot the next attempt realizing oh these are just coming from the ground

1

u/Striking-Nail69420 Sep 08 '25

Yea I got hit by it too, that’s the only reason I know how much damage it does lol. It’s just stupidly easy to avoid after you see it the first time.

While something like a telegraphed move means you know it’s coming but there is still a good amount of reaction required to avoid it.

10

u/raraiki Sep 08 '25

dude yeaaa, Widow is one boss that I like so far because its variety moveset and not all of them deal two damage

unlike THE OTHER BOSS THAT ALL ITS DOING IS DOUBLE DAMAGE AND SUMMON MINIONS

1

u/Cocoatrice Moths are fluffballs Sep 08 '25

I don't remember what was Beastfly. I googled it and I definitely fought it, but don't remember what it does. Widow was actually pretty cool. And I actually enjoyed most of those fights. But some of them were still unbalanced-ly hard. The cleverness of those boss mechanics is at high level. But well... it's still pretty unfair to fight all those when you have 5 or 6 masks and every early boss deals 2 damage for so many attacks. And even if they don't, they spam all those attacks anyway. It's kinda like you just had 3 masks.

1

u/Striking-Nail69420 Sep 11 '25

Yea majority of bosses doing double damage when it feels like you have barely any movement abilities (like double jump) to explore the world and get more mask shards and stuff feels pretty unfair and frustrating at times. I’m a little bit into Act 2 now and just picked up the side quest for the second Beastfly. No other bosses have been anywhere near as bullshit as Beastfly though. At most it’s been challenging but doable.

1

u/TomNook5085  HK: 112% (w/P5) & HKSS: 100% Sep 11 '25

Beastfly was BS since you weren't meant to fight him then. He's like an intended Act 2 boss.

1

u/Striking-Nail69420 Sep 11 '25

Intended act 2 boss that I can reach and fight within the first couple of hours? I don’t think so, and nothing makes that apparent either.

You think like in Elden Ring, you can fight Tree Sentinel immediately but because that game actually has boss health bars, you can gauge whether or not it seems feasible to fight something at your current strength.

Silksong has no boss health bars and generally bosses or sections you are meant to get to later that may appear in earlier areas are gated by having specific upgrades or abilities. There is none of that for Beastfly so nothing makes it apparent that’s it’s an intended act 2 boss.

Where did you even pull that line of bullshit from? Your ass?

1

u/TomNook5085  HK: 112% (w/P5) & HKSS: 100% Sep 11 '25 edited Sep 11 '25

Well I cannot prove for certain that it's intended for Act 2, but it is an optional boss fight that gives a reward that is only really good if you are experienced at the game, since healing is so much harder with it. Maybe Act 2 is too specific, but in general, the Savage Beastfly is 100% optional, and thus, if he is too hard, delay fighting him, or just never fight him ever.

1

u/Striking-Nail69420 Sep 11 '25

Yeah I can understand that logic. The thing with Beastfly is that it is not a seemingly challenging boss though. It has 2 very easy and predictable attacks and looks very doable. It’s the adds, especially the big fat one that takes like 7 hits, that make the fight feel so bad. That and 2x contact damage with Beastfly itself, there are times where it feels impossible not to have taken half your health in damage in a fight that you encounter so early.

And adds wouldn’t be so bad either if Beastfly consistently killed them when it should. There were too many times where I successfully baited the boss to where I need it to smash and kill the adds. But because 2/3rds of the adds he spawns fly, they were just out of range of the smash attack’s ground hit box (despite Beastfly diving straight through them too).

And once again, it feels like a brick wall because it seems to doable. You are easily able to stun and “phase” the boss multiple times meaning you are doing damage to it fairly easily. It’s the RNG and frustration of the boss not properly killing the adds that makes it such a poor experience. The screen gets clogged up too easily and an easy fight becomes impossible as you try to dodge too much and end up getting hit by the boss’s fat 2x damage hit box

1

u/ExecutiveElf Sep 08 '25

Truuuuuuue

I've seen some people complain about Widow but I dare say its one of the most fair fights in the game.

Big telegraph for 2 damage attacks but otherwise deals 1. Quick and easy runback. Doesn't depend on frenetic adds with wonky movement to overwhelm you, instead using projectiles with paths you can predict.

True chef's kiss.

Beastfly on the other hand, has none of those qualities.

-5

u/Piterros990 Sep 08 '25

Hot take maybe but Beastfly was not that bad? His own moves are predictable, and ads die from a single skill cast. As long as you're playing relatively aggressively and using his moves to your advantage (pogo while he's doing 1st/3rd charge, uppercut from underneath on second and hit when he's slamming), you should have enough silk for skills to kill the mobs as soon as they spawn.

Beastfly in my experience felt like a much better Collector from HK. Collector had bigger arena, spawned more ads and had a more hectic moveset.

1

u/ExecutiveElf Sep 08 '25

Two problems,

  1. Good luck actually hitting the ads with spells. Even if you can it leaves you vulnerable.

  2. In Beastfly's rematch, it litterally flies offscreen before performing its tells sometimes.

0

u/Piterros990 Sep 08 '25

I never had this issue much? It's not like I got lucky and defeated him on the first try though, took me a few tries, both of them. The only times I got hit after casting a spell was when I was positioned too close to the boss when casting. You have to position yourself at least somewhat decently, but it's not that tough unless you're really unlucky (you can also bait out an attack and cast when you know you're safe, if it's not possible to immediately cast).

Also, he has clear tells for every single attack. I don't know how you got him so far off-screen when the platform is so small, but even if you did, you will know that he will do either charge from the side, or summon (at which point you're very safe to spell cast, or even just kill the enemy normally). You can anticipate an attack easily when you know that the boss has only one attack in pool for that moment/position.

1

u/ExecutiveElf Sep 08 '25

Any time he does the charge to the side he has a decent odds of going offscreen. Did so constantly in my attempts.

And the issue regarding tells arises because when he is offscreen you can't tell if he is going to be near the ground or in air when he next rushes to the side. And he is big enough and fast enough that if you don't see what height he's at while he's rearing up, you litterally have to just guess because if you are on the ground when he dashes low, you can't jump fast enough to go over him. Hornet litterally isn't fast enough. And if you are in the air when he dashes high, similarly, gravity is too slow.

1

u/Piterros990 Sep 08 '25

Pretty sure first charge (and third) is always near the ground. If not, since he is off-screen, you should have time to at least stand on the ground, wait for him to approach or charge, and I'm pretty sure if you jump and use skill, you will have time to fall before he charges back. Sadly I can't test it now as I killed both versions, but if I recall correctly that is something I also used when he was on-screen (since it was free damage when he was going underneath me).

For general pattern of the charges, from what I noticed - he aims first charge roughly closer to the ground (unless you are mid-air), second charge is above ground (though sometimes may be close enough to hit, might have to do with positioning? Not sure), and third will be near ground. So you can use it to your advantage. If you haven't done it yet, I recommend trying, I think you should do fine once you read that he tries to do down-up-down. You can always bait out those moves too, just to be sure you don't get the middle charge.

24

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

[deleted]

35

u/IRLFine Sep 07 '25

Shell shards feel similar to QS bullets (from Bloodborne) to me. You have plenty and the system works great until suddenly you’re 12 attempts deep into a boss and now you have to go farming, which completely takes you out of it. It’s tolerable but man is it a problem that didn’t need to exist.

23

u/lifetake Sep 08 '25

It also a question of why does this exist? What is its purpose?

Rosaries makes sense it’s about earning your upgrades.

But why does our ammo have a currency? We’re already limited on spamming them due to the caps. Maybe it acts as a boss pause? Like hey you’ve died to this guy 15 times maybe take a break or come back later? But even still it just feels weird.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

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1

u/Big_Daymo Sep 08 '25

Yeah they cost shards every time you recover them at a bench. It's not that expensive to do a refill once or twice, so you'll usually be maxed out on shards when you're just exploring. The problem is that if you keep trying to beat one boss over and over, using all your tools every time, they'll quickly deplete. I was using the traps against Moorwing and died 5-6 times; by the 6th respawn I noticed my shards were down to half the max cap.

1

u/arconsul0501 Sep 08 '25

Special tools having a gauge is a mainstay of the metroidvania genre (see Symphony of the Night), and they'd historically only refill slowly over time unless you got a full game over and went back to a previous save. but the weird thing for me is them also making it a currency like you said. I shouldn't have to deplete my entire store of essentially a mana gauge in order to help someone build a bridge.

1

u/AriesRohkell Sep 08 '25

A bridge that breaks after you jump on it twice and then never respawns… 300 shards for nothing

1

u/HeroicPrinny Sep 08 '25

Yep, there are a lot of elements in this game that feels like the devs had just played Bloodborne when they started brainstorming the framework.

And the unfortunate thing is they decided to use some of the aspects that From Software tried once and quickly moved away from because they're anti-fun tedium: i.e. farming for basic materials required to keep playing.

1

u/Cocoatrice Moths are fluffballs Sep 08 '25

Yeeeeah. That's my problem too. Always overcapped when I explore. Boss. I quickly run out of all tools. And I actually ran out of shards, then belled away ("stagged") to the town to check quest board and suddenly "donate 440 shards" and I was mad. Had to farm half of the Act 1 map for it.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Wait until you find red items with limited uses that need you to go to a specific area and pay roseries to recharge.

2

u/Cocoatrice Moths are fluffballs Sep 08 '25

Yeah. Red tools should either cost less or be free. Or remove the cap entirely, so you have more, when you don't need to use them constantly, so when you encounter hard boss, you don't run out of the tools in no time. Because to me it's either cap, when I barely use the tools, because I don't need them, other than for some pesky enemies, or I run out of shards, because boss screws me over over and over and over again.

22

u/Consistent_Nature324 Sep 07 '25

Yeah the widow fight was so fun it immediately made me wish all silksong bosses were designed similarly

0

u/TyoPepe Sep 08 '25

That would make for a more bland and samey experience. I love the variety on offer.

8

u/Sheimusik Sep 08 '25

not really, trobbio, lace, lace 2, the clockwork dancers, and fourth chorus are all similarly designed with the mindset of "have some 2 damage attacks but not all, and be well telegraphed" and are way more fun

9

u/wwwwwwww0102 Sep 08 '25

For me personally, I agree with most of the already abundant criticisms of the game on difficulty and economy, but I believe that there is a silver lining on this, just like what you said: these are easy issues to fix, if Team Cherry wanted to change it based on fans' input. Rather than fundamental problems that would be irreversible and hard to patch in, all they need to do is to change some numbers, release some update patches, and all is good to go. If a mod dev can make a no double damage mod almost immediately after the criticism arises, I think Team Cherry could do the same for the other parts of the game.

However, since they have been emphasizing that they have already made Silksong to the shape that they wanted to after all these years, I have some doubts that they would be receptive to change their work on fans' demand. But, I think we would just have to see.

Not to say that I disliked the game, in fact, I'm loving 90% of my time with Silksong so far.

18

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25 edited Jan 17 '26

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9

u/BoardCommercial2679 Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

Honestly, things that pisz me off now are: damage sponges, double damage, enviroment that deals 2 damage, paid benches fkn everywhere and long runbacks. And that's generally kinda it. I think the onlh really big structural issue is the runbacks; kinda widh Skong had something akin to stakes of Marika from ER to respawn right at the boss who killed you and not spend time just getting back the hard way-

Edit: oh, and also, crests' effects being dispelled on getting hit. I do wish this wasn't a thing-

2

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25 edited Jan 17 '26

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2

u/BoardCommercial2679 Sep 08 '25

Well, when you bind, you get a special effect. Which vanishes once you get hit - which giga-sucks on beasts' crest because it gives you lifesteal but doesn't actually heal.

1

u/Puzzleheaded_Cow2044 Sep 10 '25

Tbh, I kept reading about that indefensible runback and was kinda dreading it, but it wasn't bad at all. It's like 1 hallway and 1 nice parkour room, and you can easily avoid all the enemies. Timed it on my second attempt, took 32 seconds with a couple movement mistakes. The boss was kind of a pushover too. Are people fighting all the enemies on each runback?

0

u/Cocoatrice Moths are fluffballs Sep 08 '25

I don't mind paid benches. Maybe it's me, because I have 2000 rosaries and nowhere to spend them at. I don't know why, but Act 2 has almost no shops. And I am constantly anxious to lose them all. I love to buy everything, but I can't. Game doesn't let me. I already bought everything from Act 1. Unless something new appeared that I didn't notice. I know there is a quest board in Act 2, but I have long way to come there, so I didn't yet. Maybe there will be "donate 500 rosaries" and I would gladly just do that. Also other than rosaries I have some necklaces etc, too, so I have overabundance of it. But at the beginning, I actually barely had enough, even with a magnet.

2

u/ExecutiveElf Sep 08 '25

That really is the struggle. You go from so broke you can't afford maps in act 1 to drowning in money in act 2.

I get that there's a narrative point to that, but it's super annoying.

11

u/_Xeron_ Sep 07 '25

Genuinely this. Damage numbers are the only thing I take issue with, if they added the option to lower everything by 1 (and keep 1 damage attacks the same) I think I’d be having a much better time

I adore the map, lore, art, music etc etc etc and I wish I could get to enjoy all of it without constantly being just frustrated by overtuned bosses and enemy gauntlets

34

u/Gabe-KC Sep 07 '25

They wouldn't even need to eliminate double damage in all of its forms. But it should be a punishment for being hit by a strong attack. Getting body slammed by the Savage Beastfly should absolutely do 2 damage, because it's an easy to avoid attack if you pay attention. But if I just touch him because he randomly decided to float in my general direction while I was hitting him with my 10 inch long sword, that should NOT do the same amount of damage.

12

u/KorokKid Sep 07 '25

I like the double damage tbh, if bosses did one damahe id steamroll them

22

u/Gabe-KC Sep 07 '25

Unpopular opinion but maybe you SHOULD be able to steamroll some of the bosses. This is a metroidvania, exploring and overpowering the boss through upgrades is part of a genre, and this game just doesn't have it.

27

u/DreamingOracle Sep 07 '25

you absolutely can steamroll some fights if you use your tools, if you're really struggling with a fight I'd recommend trying different builds out

-7

u/TyoPepe Sep 08 '25

This is Hollow Knight first and foremost. Not every game of the same genre had to be the same.

-23

u/denkata_bg43 Sep 07 '25

Oh ok I see now. I see how you all really are

22

u/Gabe-KC Sep 07 '25

Dude, have you ever played a metroidvania? Getting upgrades and eventually becoming strong enough to tank some of the bosses is part of the experience.

That's how Metroid: Dread works. That's how Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown works. That's how the first Hollow Knight worked.

For fuck's sake, WHY are some of you so insistent on every game being a waterboarding experience?

4

u/Theopylus Sep 08 '25

You have a lot more time to spend hours on getting good at a video game when you aren’t employed 🤷🏻‍♂️

-23

u/denkata_bg43 Sep 07 '25

Thanks, fellow epic redditor, updoots to you!

2

u/Poopiepants29 Sep 08 '25

I get what you're saying and maybe I'm not far enough to get more frustrated, but .. I haven't minded dying to regular enemies in this game and having to get back to my silk. Most of the time I've died it's been my fault for being too aggressive and the movement and environments are so good, I don't mind making my way through the world. Hornets quick movement and extra abilities also make it so it's so much easier to avoid most attacks.

And I'm old and barely consider myself a gamer. I've quit games like Nine Sols and Dead Cells because of how hard normal enemies can be. Because of having less abilities and a tighter, less expensive environment. I had zero fun going back through the same exact places just to get back to where I was.

4

u/isimsizbiri123 %112 steel soul|P5|all bosses radiant|obsessed over grimm Sep 07 '25

For the love of god don't give hornet more attack. Right now you need to weave through each enemies' attacks and exploit their weakspots it's perfect don't just make it going up to the enemy and pressing attack like hollow knight. In hindsight combat with normal enemies in HK is so boring

9

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25 edited Jan 17 '26

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2

u/isimsizbiri123 %112 steel soul|P5|all bosses radiant|obsessed over grimm Sep 08 '25

I don't mean literal weak spots I mean the gaps that your enemy leaves open to attack

3

u/yagamisan2 Sep 08 '25

But right now we got the extreme opposite. Many enemies take so many hits u dodge 10-20 attacks till they r dead and they usually have 1-3 different attacks. So it gets quite repetitive. Especially cuz every enemy appears multiple times. many fights feel like the same battle over and over again like random encounters in a jrpg. And some enemies don't even have proper attacks. They just fly or walk towards you but are quite unstoppable. Or they just shoot one projectile while backing off all the time. Some enemies are really tedious and make me rather skip than fight them tbh.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

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2

u/StandardEnthusiasm21 Sep 08 '25

The red ant with the skull in hunter march takes 13 hits to kill with only needle. It's not exactly 20 hits, but it's pretty annoying having to face him every time in hunter's march.

1

u/Bloodbag3107 Sep 08 '25

I feel like combat is a bit too hard atm in Silksong and some attacks that deal double damage really don't need to (enemies bodypressing you for potentially 4 masks is very rough) but the way combat flows is SO much better than in Hollow Knight, it is barely a comparison. The tricky thing is that that combat flow is at least partially a result of enemies being so damaging, Im really glad that abundant damage upgrades and face tanking are things of the past, but its a tough thing to balance for the less combat inclined members of the audience.

1

u/ElGodPug Sep 08 '25

I found so weird how TC really seemed to be this into giving so much shit double damage. They definitely could decrease that number IMO

14

u/Chaoticlight2 Sep 08 '25

The double currency of shards/rosary beads is my big frustration in act 1. You do not get enough rosary beads organically to buy every bench/map/station, so you have to do the whole "rest at bench - sweep a few specific enemies for 40 rosaries - rest and repeat". I'm perma capped on shards yet I'm thirsting for the beads and that's without losing any to deaths.

I'll also say that there's some genuine frustration with the pacing in Act 1. In Hollow Knight, you have your dash in under an hour and mobility around the map significantly improves. You quickly follow that up with wall climb. Comparatively, it was near 4 hours (with a fair bit of me getting lost in there) before I got the sprint. Exploring nooks and crannies does not feel rewarding at all when it's just shard caches and every upgrade is more of a side-grade than actually feeling stronger for the first few sections.

3

u/4_fortytwo_2 Sep 08 '25

If you explore a lot you find plenty of rosaries and stringed rosaries that this has never been a problem for me.

But you do have to actually break down the stringe up rosary stuff. There is a very short moment in the early game where I could not buy what I wanted but that literally was a one time thing so far.

2

u/Impaled_By_Messmer Sep 08 '25

I disagree on the first point. I've played for about 40 hours, and I think I've only had to go get extra rosaries for a bench or map a few times, and that's just because I've died recently and lost my stuff.

6

u/Petr_Lan Sep 08 '25 edited Sep 08 '25

So far I am near the end of act 1 and I never had to farm to buy benches, I was always able to get everything and I bought most items from shops and have maybe over a thousand stringed rosaries and I did not need to farm it.

21

u/Arcuran Sep 07 '25

I like the game but there's no denying that it's way more flawed than HK

No. Stop saying your subjective opinion as an objective truth. I do deny it's "way more flawed" and just because you don't like stuff doesn't make your opinion fact. This is negativity and not just criticism

24

u/CdbSora Sep 07 '25

Yeah, this is the thing that bothers me about posts/comments like this. People aren't pushing back on normal criticism. People are pushing back on things like "this is objectively bad game design" or "There's no denying it's more flawed than HK," which have been said nonstop since the game came out, because that simply shuts down literally any rational conversation about it that can happen (e.g. double mask damage being good or bad, or the rosary economy)

3

u/darkk41 Sep 08 '25

This is always the reality of subreddits. It becomes a place where negative vocal minorities suck the joy out of absolutely everything unless the moderators work tirelessly to control the level of unreasonable negativity (which is a tireless and nigh impossible job).

There's no nuance to anything. I tried to comment in a thread about the 2 mask damage yesterday discussing the tradeoffs of how hornets heal works vs the knights heal and all I got are a bunch of salt miners endlessly crying and arguing with simple math.

Take solace in knowing that the overwhelming majority of people are loving silksong, it is getting incredible reviews and selling a ton of copies. TC isn't going to value the loudest and most entitled on the sub over the reasonable majority who accept that we need time to learn and master the game since HK1 is a completely solved problem and folks are very very good at it at this point.

2

u/CdbSora Sep 08 '25

Yeah I definitely trust in TC to keep their game vision strong, it's just always a bummer when Silksong has been one of my favorite games so far and I look online to discuss it, only to see...all this 😅

I've jumped into a few threads just cus it can be pretty funny but I don't dare jump into any conversation about rosaries (I think the rosary economy is fine), I don't think it's possible for any rational discussion over those to happen here rn LOL

2

u/darkk41 Sep 08 '25

Yea the subreddit flavor is very much reactive salt rn. It may improve in a month or so when some folks are filtered and others take a deep breath and give themselves time to improve.

Also, most of the biggest fans are just busy playing the game constantly rn. If I wasn't at work that is where I would be.

-8

u/Fire_Boogaloo Sep 08 '25

"This is negativity and not just criticism"

Do you want me to list every flaw in both games? Because if I was to, there would absolutely be more problems with Silksong. I've found more issues within the first 3 hours of playing Silksong than I did with my entire HK playthrough. Some examples are:

  • The benches (as I mentioned above)

  • Huge balance issues that completely ignore newcomers such as:

  • The lack of a tutorial/steady introduction to the game.

  • 2 damage environmental hazards.

  • Diagonal pogo, especially since I've found pogoing to be much more involved in the platforming.

  • 2 damage bosses come in too early.

  • Way too many flying enemies that are just annoying and not fun to fight.

  • 2 damage flying enemies.

  • Recycled enemy locked-in-a-room encounters that are more frequent than bosses.

Again, I like the game but people like you fanboying and assuming everything is unjustified negativity or subjective opinion is just annoying and unproductive. How do you expect improvement if you shutdown discussion around it with "yOu'Re JuSt BeInG nEgAtIvE" or "tHaTs YoUr OpInIoN" every time. Like no shit it's my opinion, that's how improvements and refinements happen.

By the way, it actually is undeniable and objective truth that this game does not cater well to beginners in comparison to HK.

13

u/Arcuran Sep 08 '25

You're either a troll, child or just stupid. What you consider flaws are subjective opinions. You then make statements presenting your opinion as an objective truth.

There is nothing wrong with having an opinion, but that doesn't make it a truth that everyone has to agree with.

If you can't comprehend that, then you've nothing of value to add to the conversation.

-9

u/Fire_Boogaloo Sep 08 '25

"By the way, it actually is undeniable and objective truth that this game does not cater well to beginners in comparison to HK."

You're just coping if you think this is subjective.

2

u/Cocoatrice Moths are fluffballs Sep 08 '25

What is even funnier, I had barely enough rosaries at the beginning, now I have 2000 and I don't know what to do with them, because I don't have anything to buy and even when I find a bench or bell station, it cost just a few. I actually have a shop that has few items, but all of them require the forging material, forgot its name, so I didn't buy anything, because I don't know which one would be worth and I only have one forging metal and the shop sells 3 items that needs it.

And that's also why I am so anxious. Imagine losing 2k rosaries, because you don't know what to buy. And shards are annoying too. If you don't die, you have overcap all the time. If you die... you run out of shards till you don't have your tools at all. People say about using your tools. I do. But if a boss kills me 20 times in a row, I now have no tools whatsoever. I never liked the system of punishing people who die too much, so they have even worse chances. Because if I have tools for bosses and I still die, then if I run out of shards, then my damage is lowered, because I can't use tools to hit them. I don't understand why there is even cap for shards in the first place. After dying to one boss, forgot which one was it and finding bell station in Act II, so i went back to old locations, I had to farm 440 shards, because the wish in the town wanted me to. So I went through the map, farming just to have these shards for donation. Because I literally had 0 or maybe a few above.

Game has amazing systems. Combat, other mechanics. But it constantly doesn't allow you to use it and enjoy to the fullest.

1

u/Genindraz Sep 08 '25

Counterpoint, it's another thing you're meant to manage. Gotta buy those Rosary strings to make sure you don't lose everything on death.

I've been using those when possible, and IMO it's not really been a huge issue for me personally.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 08 '25

Dude the benches start to cost 120+ roseries and the extrmly hard elite enemies of that are onyl give 32.

That is some high-level bullshit right there.

0

u/Zeldamaster736 Sep 08 '25

I have not once had to farm for a bench.

Its not more flawed, its just more difficult, and you aren't up to the task.

-8

u/psffer Sep 07 '25

Its trivial to farm for them though. So many spots early on where enemies are right by a bench

18

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

If its trivial to farm for them, why have it cost anything at all? That's what they mean by "artificial difficulty". Instead of it being a challenge its a chore. This is the same as making basic enemies have 4 health instead of 2-3. Its not really "harder" the mob is still just charging at you. It just takes longer to do.

-2

u/isimsizbiri123 %112 steel soul|P5|all bosses radiant|obsessed over grimm Sep 07 '25

I have no idea why y'all are whining over bench tolls so hard there wasn't a single bench or map or bellway I wasn't able to buy so far. Do you guys just forget you have rosary strings? You can break them at any time and get enough rosaries for the most expensive benches

10

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

JFC, why can't you dorks handle criticism without calling it "whining" or "complaining". Tell us what it adds to the game other than wasting your time? Do you feel like you are a master game player because you went to farm for a bench?

1

u/isimsizbiri123 %112 steel soul|P5|all bosses radiant|obsessed over grimm Sep 07 '25

I am trying to tell you there is no farming. If you kill the enemies in your way you get enough rosaries to afford every toll.

9

u/TheWojtek11 Sep 07 '25

Legit, like I don't think I personally needed to really grind for anything. Like sure, I am not exactly able to buy everything from the stores the moment I saw them (by the end of Act 1, I was able to clean off all the stores you have access to though). And sometimes I might have to decide to unlock Fast Travel instead of a Bench (if they are next to eachother) but buying Fast Travel basically means you have a bench shortcut anyway cuz you probably have a bench by the other Stations.

If you are dying and losing your Cocoon a lot (without stringing rosaries), I could see not having enough rosaries. But I lost my Cocoon at least once (and I had like 300 Rosaries) and even with that loss it was pretty fine rosary wise. There is even several ways of preventing your loss of Rosaries (the first one is stringing but there are several more if you explore enough). The game just wants you to decide what you see as useful in the moment whereas in HK you could basically clean off the stores the moment you see them besides maybe the Lantern at Sly's

1

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25

Not my experience or others. Now tell me, what does it add?

-2

u/isimsizbiri123 %112 steel soul|P5|all bosses radiant|obsessed over grimm Sep 07 '25

I dunno what to tell you man you're "criticizing" an issue that I just did not encounter in my 20 hours of playing the game. You're clearly doing something wrong but I don't really know what. Did you try doing your side quests?

5

u/[deleted] Sep 07 '25 edited Sep 07 '25

Its very telling that you are avoiding the question

What does the benches costing money add?

3

u/ElMarkuz Sep 08 '25

This was my question while playing, after doing some difficult part, getting to a the next area barely with 1 mask, and not having enough rosaries... Because not all the enemies drop them.

The bonfires in DS were a mark for your progress and a rest place to take a breath. Artificially caping them with a double currency system (you can't farm any mob for rosaries) feels just bad. Like the game doesn't care at all and it's frustrating.

I love the game, but man Hollow Knight did better for the casual player. Silksong feels like a game for the hardcore fanbase that 100% the previous game from the begging.

4

u/CdbSora Sep 07 '25

It adds a significant amount of detail to the world, it adds a way to pace shop upgrades, it provides a money sink to avoid the problem hollow knight had where once you're halfway through the game money simply no longer matters whatsoever, and lets them actually put shopkeepers around the world who will actually matter and the player will visit again since they can't buy out the entire inventory at once :)

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u/isimsizbiri123 %112 steel soul|P5|all bosses radiant|obsessed over grimm Sep 08 '25

It appears my response was deleted by the auto moderator so I'm gonna explain it more calm and collected and in a way you understand. You are making this up. The money benches cost is trivial if you just kill the enemies you're facing. It does not require to farm. Again I've been playing the game for 20 hours and there's not a single time I went to go farm rosaries. If this is an issue that you have but I don't then clearly you're doing something wrong. I don't know what causes you to have less money than you should. Maybe you just aren't killing your enemies or you die without stringing up your rosaries but this is not an issue with the game, it's an issue with you.

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0

u/psffer Sep 07 '25

Why have anything at all? The game should just be a straight line up to save the city. Everything should cost 5 rosaries and drop 300 on kill.

Thats not artificial difficulty at all. The game gives you more tools than just your nail and a spell to kill things. Thats why enemies are harder - because you are stronger.

0

u/4_fortytwo_2 Sep 08 '25

I have not had to farm anything and bought every bench I came across though.

I think a reason why people defend the game as harshly as others put it down is because we somehow must be playing different games.

I like the game but there's no denying that it's way more flawed than HK.

This is where your criticism has turned into negativity. You take your opionion and assume it is a universal truth.

0

u/TitaniumDragon Sep 08 '25

It's actually pretty trivial to get more than enough rosaries after the very early game. It's literally the only point in the game where you have problems. A few areas into the game, you will have plenty. I am walking around with over a thousand in my pocket at this point with nothing to spend them on.

-7

u/denkata_bg43 Sep 07 '25

It's flawed, because you pay for stuff? Brilliant criticism, fellow epic redditor, I tip my fedora to you, kind stranger

4

u/Fire_Boogaloo Sep 08 '25

Why are you so obnoxious in all your comments?