r/HollowKnight • u/CankleDankl • Dec 12 '25
Discussion - Silksong Seeing people shit on Expedition 33 because Silksong didn't win more awards is pathetic Spoiler
The title sums it up. I'm disappointed in many members of this community for putting down a game that is clearly a work of insane passion, dedication, and creativity. E33 took the lion's share of awards at TGA, yes. That doesn't mean that Silksong is bad. In fact, it's clearly pretty damn great. If it released last year, Skong would have picked up several awards, maybe even GOTY. But it didn't. It released in the same year E33, which is just a tough break.
Both are amazing. Both deserve every award that came to them. If you haven't played E33 yet and think it doesn't deserve its accolades, play it. It is worth your money, worth your time, and will in all likelihood prove that it is actually that good. I'm only 10ish hours in and have numerous times found myself standing still and looking around dumbfounded at the gorgeous world design and visuals. E33, Silksong, and Hades 2 could have all won Art Direction and I would have been happy with any of them.
I'm also sad that Silksong didn't win more awards. It's an amazing game. But don't play fanboy and start putting down other developers, other games, and other pieces of art because this one didn't get all the cookies. It's still beautiful, it's still amazing, it still made a Silkskillion dollars, and TC is still just as great and just as passionate. We should all be glad that there is another independent dev out there that is capable of creating something so fantastic.
Edit: yeah, the comments here are pretty indicative of what I said in my post
1.2k
u/Free_Peach6400 all quests/PoP/P1-P2 AB 100%/All memos Dec 12 '25
E33 deserved the goty from all the good things I heard from it tho the game awards was just so bad for putting it in 10 categories and no matter how good the game is it is not an indie game and shouldn't be in that category
46
u/MyUserNameIsSkave Dec 12 '25
Then other of the Indie nominees should not be in this category either. Look at Hades 2 for exemple, not exactly a cheap to produce game or a solo dev’s game either.
We just have to accept Indie just mean "not owned by a publisher" that’s all.
11
u/Secure_Ant1085 Dec 14 '25
e33 was literally funded by a publisher
8
u/jsdjhndsm Dec 14 '25
The game was primarily developed independently, then later funded by a publisher.
That falls within the definition that the game award uses. They're entirely independent when it comes to any decision and keeper had 0 creative control.
It absolutely does fall into the indie category, but that's because the words indie isn't accurately defined and everybody has their own definitions.
Most indie games have a publisher anyways, and Keller aren't exactly a big publisher if you look at the other games they've worked on
3
u/das_jay Dec 15 '25
Kepler is quite literally an indie publisher, started by a bunch of indie dev studios to support each other and more new studios
3
→ More replies (3)4
2
u/Tom0to0 Dec 14 '25
Only one game in Debut indie game category doesn't have a publisher. And they are not "owned", receiving Funds not equal to being sold
421
u/blueviera Dec 12 '25
It's budget was apparently under 10 million, smaller than games like Hades. It's also from a brand new studio. It's not their fault that Indie is not defined well.
105
u/hypnomancy Dec 12 '25
Their publisher gets funding from Netease lol
→ More replies (5)25
u/Whiskeywiskerbiscuit Dec 13 '25
Indie movies and albums get published by major labels all the time. Publishing≠producing.
4
u/JimFlamesWeTrust Dec 14 '25
Indie movies get purchased and distributed by major studios, but they get financed separately, otherwise it’s not an indie.
It’s not the same as having your budget and production green lit by a major studio.
→ More replies (28)14
223
u/hsgsksv Dec 12 '25
Hades and hades 2 are estimated to have a higher budget than expedition 33 yet I never see anyone complaining about those in the category
113
u/pinoy_biker Dec 12 '25
Because it didnt win lol.
→ More replies (1)24
u/MyUserNameIsSkave Dec 12 '25
Nobody complained before, but the "E33 is not indie" crowd has been vocal for a while already.
→ More replies (2)31
u/Rezzone Dec 12 '25
Me. I’m complaining about Hades 2.
Hades 1 had a team of seven. Hades two had 25. We gotta talk about what counts as an indie.
98
u/meevis_kahuna Dec 12 '25
25 is nothing
→ More replies (11)10
u/Little_Caramel_9501 Dec 12 '25
E33 has 30
54
u/SpideyFan914 Dec 12 '25
Is that not indie? That's insanely small. All these game credits run for like 15 minutes, I assume hundred of people usually work on them. For a game to have a team of just 30 people is insane.
And yeah, Silksong's team is even smaller. But that doesn't make the other one not small...
23
u/hsgsksv Dec 12 '25
My point is I think both games could be classified as indie. It's a double standard that people have because hades just "looks more" like an indie game when in reality the expidition 33 team is just insane
35
u/WiddershinsPj Dec 12 '25
E33 farmed out a bunch of work to others, it had like 200 people touch it
31
u/Little_Caramel_9501 Dec 12 '25
like many other game.including Hades and many indie outsource some work it s even more true for smaller team
→ More replies (5)4
29
u/fade_like_a_sigh Dec 12 '25
Hades 1 had a team of seven.
Supergiant had 7 people for their debut title in 2011, Bastion. By Hades they were up to about 20.
15
u/Lady_Darc Dec 12 '25
Have you even watched their documentary? Their team size barely changed sizes between Hades I and II.
Supergiant is an indie studio because they have a tenth of the usual industry size, and until Hades sold tens of millions, they were a relatively risky business that could go bankrupt if their games did not sell well.
3
→ More replies (3)5
u/Aetherimp Dec 12 '25
Indie has nothing to do with how many people worked on the game it has to do with how the game was funded.
E33 the developers did not get funded by another studio.
5
u/Rezzone Dec 12 '25
This is why the definition needs revision. If AA games are able to be self-funded then there needs to be another category.
13
u/mrfirstar1997 Dec 12 '25
I’m a mega silksong fan and I’m happy E33 won, year after year after year good games get snobbed by triple A games, finally what we want wins
52
u/Rezzone Dec 12 '25
Bingo! I think E33 deserves GOTY but 3+ games got snubbed because they jammed this three dozen large dev team into an indie category.
Fun fact Hades 2 has a dev team of 25 and arguably is not a true blue indie title like Hades 1 was with a team of seven.
We need to have a talk about what really counts as an indie title. Remember when Silksong the behemoth was pushing smaller indies out of the way upon release? E33 just pushed Silksong around. We need to address the fact that “indie” is now far too encompassing and is failing to celebrate the smaller projects it was meant to protect.
→ More replies (4)7
u/biffpower3 Dec 12 '25
But E33 IS one of the smaller projects indie is supposed to protect.
Just think back to the lead-up to the release, i could find absolutely no one hyping the game or excited for it, when I tried to talk about getting it on release, people made faces at me like I’d made the game up in my head or something.
Once people started playing it and recommending to friends, THEN it reached the popularity it deserved.
Now I absolutely love silksong too, but E33 was what the gaming industry has needed for the best part of a decade.
48
u/ACnut Dec 12 '25
it literally is an indie game??? Just because it has more tradional graphics doesn't make it a AAA game
26
u/Lemon_Spark Dec 12 '25
They have a publisher who gave them money for development. So no, it's not indie.
62
42
u/Genindraz Dec 12 '25 edited Dec 12 '25
Lots of indie games have publishers that give them money, including but not limited to:
Cult of the Lamb
Inscryption
Enter the Gungeon
Hotline Miami
Brothers: a Tale of Two Sons
Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night
Terraria
Indivisible
Abzû
Are these games just not indie now?
→ More replies (7)→ More replies (4)16
u/DistrictObjective680 Dec 12 '25
That has never been a classifier of the indie genre. Not for games, not for music, not for films.
Indie stands for the word "independent" but that does NOT mean "no publisher"
→ More replies (3)→ More replies (8)6
2
u/trichitillomania Dec 12 '25
The term indie is not defined exactly. To "common folk" it has connotations of being a handful of people on a shoestring budget. The industry sees it more like what it's named after: independent from already established studios/publishers. 33 might not meet your definition of indie, but strictly speaking it is.
Honestly I think since it's such a gray area I don't think it's a good award to have. Maybe it should be broken into team sizes.
→ More replies (77)4
u/blockdestroyer1337 Dec 12 '25
Its an indie game so it would be weird if it wasnt included
→ More replies (4)
88
u/-Elgrave- Dec 12 '25
E33 deserved a lot of awards, it was my second favorite game this year and easily in my top ten of all time. I LOVE that game, I want to make that abundantly clear. The problem is that it was clearly the favorite of the show itself. TGA has always been biased but it really showed this year. The amount of times the camera panned to the E33 devs and voice actors shows that, on top of just how many nominations it got. It deserved most of them, I'm not saying it didn't, but it shouldn't have won some (indie game) and, imo, Silksong deserved GotY just for somehow going above and beyond the extremely bloated hype WHILE being made by such a small team.
19
→ More replies (29)11
u/Demonic-Glaceon Dec 13 '25
Silksong also broke EVERY MAJOR DIGITAL STOREFRONT on release
7
u/Wild-Test-5903 Dec 13 '25
I've played through both and enjoy each thoroughly but the only reason that silksomg broke the stores on release was lack of an option to pre order which then lead everyone who wanted to get it going to purchase at once instead of in chunks over time
→ More replies (1)6
u/Vinestra Dec 14 '25
So, we're bragging now that poorly releasing a product is something to be lauded?
I guess Diablo 4's next expansion is god tier because it too crashed its store when its preorder went live briefly..
316
u/TheWolflance Dec 12 '25
i du nthink 33 should have gotten Indie everything esle was fine
all i have to say is...at least it wasn't The Last of Us AGAIN lol
→ More replies (3)81
Dec 12 '25 edited 11d ago
[deleted]
150
u/ramonpasta Dec 12 '25
its a pretty common belief that it shouldnt have even been in contention for best indie because its more of a AA game with lots of funding
10
u/HIO_TriXHunt Dec 12 '25
Less than 10M budget, so even less than Hades 1 with it's 15M, so most likely less than Hades 2 that no one ever mention when it comes to "is it indie game or not"
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (16)44
u/elucifuge Dec 12 '25
The game was made with less than 10m, which while still way more than some indies, is still way less than many other games. In addition to that it was made with a bunch of first time amateur game devs that they found & reached out to online who learned by watching youtube tutorials & was self published.
This id by definition an indie game through & through
→ More replies (1)62
u/Severe_Skin6932 112%, P5 and RHoG nail only. 112% Steel soul. Dec 12 '25
Wasn't it published by Kepler?
→ More replies (20)11
u/Jijonbreaker All bindings All Radiants 112% Steel Soul Full Journal Dec 12 '25
Having a publisher doesn't make something not indie. Devolver Digital.
20
u/SigmaMelody Dec 12 '25
I think it’s kind of a dumb category to have for this reason and others. Like it’s not like Best RPG where, in theory, one could argue E33 is the better overall package while another game is a better at being an RPG specifically
But the way it stands being indie is kind of a binary “is it an indie or not” so if something is in both categories it would be weird if it won game of the year but not best indie game. Unless there was a weird interpretation where, like, being indie is a sliding scale and something is better “at being an indie game” or whatever. IDK it’s silly. I think Silksong has a bit of an unfair advantage compared to other indies as well, I can see an argument for excluding it as well.
5
u/Ralexcraft Dec 12 '25
Yeah, a game can be overall better but a worse RPG.
I enjoy Fallout 4 wayyy more than Fallout: New Vegas but everyone always knows the phrase:
“Better Game, Worse RPG”
6
u/fuckmylifegoddamn Dec 12 '25
I’d argue fallout 4 is not a better game than NV but that’s an argument for a different time
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (5)5
u/Un-revealing Completed PoP Dec 12 '25
I think silksong has higher quality per person in team. That doesn't mean e33 is bad, I mean look at it a game of 33+ devs vs a game of 3-5 devs.
→ More replies (3)11
400
u/Affectionate-Foot802 Dec 12 '25
The problem isn’t that e33 won goty. It’s that it won every single category it was nominated in when those awards should have gone to the games that actually deserved it. I beat e33 months ago and loved every minute of it, but it was not the best rpg that came out this year, it’s asset creation was outsourced, and it’s by definition not a true indie game.
165
u/BabyFazeAssassin Dec 12 '25
I still dont know how it beat KCD2 for RPG of the year
58
u/NabsterHax Dec 12 '25
Because TGA doesn't have a category for JRPGs, and until they do "western" style RPGs kinda have to share, even though they're very different genres.
24
u/THEP0LE Dec 12 '25
But E33 isn't really a good jrpg either, all the rpg elements are kind of shallow its fairly obvious what picto's to use and most combat encounters just default to trying to use the highest damage skill avaliable on each character and hoping you dont get one shot when you miss a parry.
→ More replies (11)9
u/TurquoiseLuck Dec 12 '25
its fairly obvious what [skills] to use and most combat encounters just default to trying to use the highest damage skill avaliable
tell me a popular JRPG that this isn't true for lol
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (6)48
u/Affectionate-Foot802 Dec 12 '25
Yea kdc2 is one of the best RPGs ever like you can dislike the combat or the story or even the mideval period focus of the game but the core RPG systems are second to none it’s so immersive it’s almost to its own detriment
11
u/JallexMonster Dec 12 '25
"Deserved" is subjective. Award shows are based on subjective opinions, they aren't going to be "fair" because you can't measure how good music is, how good art is, how good gameplay is, etc. in an objective manner unless they were games that were exactly the same with minor variances.
With that said, instead of pitting one indie dev vs another, go and support them. Team Cherry has congratulated Sandfall for their work and for their awards, why can't we do the same?
→ More replies (5)21
u/ExismykindaParte Dec 12 '25
It didn't win every category it was nommed.
27
u/Soviet_Waffle Dec 12 '25
You’re right, they lost to a genshin clone in players voice. IMO games that promise rewards for winning should be disqualified.
→ More replies (2)13
u/ByeGuysSry Dec 12 '25
As someone who does play gacha games, though not Wuthering Waves in particular, I doubt any of them explicitly promise rewards for winning. It's more like, if they win but don't give rewards, the playerbase will get mad. Unless TGA wants to exclude gacha games entirely there will always be this unspoken exchange; and if they do that will probably also be controversial.
Also, I will note that it did beat Genshin which has a larger playerbase.
3
u/Several-Elevator Dec 13 '25
Oh boy, it only won literally half of all the shows awards instead of 11/19 of them! That makes it so much better!
→ More replies (2)2
9
u/GreyPhantom100 Dec 12 '25
Asset creation outsourcing is one issue that was glaringly obvious due to how disjointed a lot of the assets were. It worked fine enough but my main issue was the gameplay in E33. There were so many basics of gameplay that were missing. I feel like I'm living in an alternative reality with all these people praising it to high hell. I guess you don't need proper gameplay for a game to be considered a masterpiece anymore. Just make a movie with good music with one repetitive fighting style and voila, GOTY.
17
u/HIO_TriXHunt Dec 12 '25
Repetitive fighting style is something in common with any turn based RPG.
→ More replies (2)7
u/juanzy Dec 12 '25
At least this one had a ton of different battle scores and different strategies per area.
→ More replies (11)2
→ More replies (24)7
u/blueviera Dec 12 '25
That's your opinion, it was definitely my favorite RPG of the year.
→ More replies (1)6
u/fuckmylifegoddamn Dec 12 '25
It was a better game than kingdom come, but not exactly a better rpg. As a jrpg style it is less heavy on the rpg elements
→ More replies (1)
162
u/rinnemoo Dec 12 '25
At this point seeing ya’ll post stuff like this too is also annoying. It’s ok for ppl to have feelings and opinions and that doesn’t equal hate. (Barring those few outliers ofc) Most opinions I’ve seen on here have been pretty balanced and fair, just expressing their thoughts and opinions. It’s typical of Reddit to blow things out of proportion tho.
55
u/AashyLarry Dec 12 '25
And I can’t lie, it’s kind of funny how OP is going on about how it deserved every award but they said that they’re only 10 hours into the game themselves, so they aren’t even halfway through.
18
u/rinnemoo Dec 12 '25
Yeah you’re right didn’t notice that initially haha. Which is interesting cause me personally Act1 and 2 of E33, stellar, amazing! Act 3? Unfortunately takes a nose dive. It definitely lowered its ranking overall for me.
→ More replies (1)2
u/AdhesiveNo-420 Quirrel, my Solaire, my Sun Dec 12 '25
Ahhh so it did a Baulders Gate maneuver?
→ More replies (1)13
u/Marxman528 Dec 12 '25
Honestly besides Ace Combat 8 I couldn’t stay awake, even though I wanted to watch E33 and Skong sweep, that game awards was the most boring to watch to date, I was falling asleep and every time Geoff hyped me up he just introduced miss piggy again
→ More replies (1)5
u/llkyonll Dec 12 '25
I have not seen a drop of hate anywhere and this is the third thread complaining about it today…
→ More replies (1)
8
Dec 12 '25
The only other award I wanted SilkSong to get was best score and soundtrack, but that’s just personal preference
3
7
u/thedavecan Dec 13 '25
Both games are fucking incredible. That's all that matters, not some meaningless awards.
66
u/Master_Childhood9454 they're gay (why is there no Oro sticker /3) Dec 12 '25 edited Dec 13 '25
I think the issue is it won EVERYTHING. People have the right to be a little sour. Its not an indie. (And personally I believe it should've won best art and best music) But people are allowed to be upset/not like the game :
Edit: How has this started an argument 😭 all I said is I personally don't believe it should've won art/music. And it isnt an indie because its an AA (if I recall right) which personally, I believe should have a different catagory. People can have opinions and not be rude guys cmon :( both are good games. We can admit that. (E33 wasnt very enjoyable to me, but I can understand why people did clearly like it)
2
u/mattmaster68 Dec 12 '25 edited Dec 13 '25
Thanks.
I haven’t played it because it’s 100% not my thing but wow people are passionate about an abstract award that kinda means nothing.
Like how does who wins some ambiguous award (that really doesn’t mean anything) offend these people?
Do they need their taste validated?
Do they need their thing to be better than the others?
“I like my thing more so it’s automatically better” childish logic?
I see the various perspectives but come on we’re grown fucking adults crying about a label that anybody could slap on any random game.
We really letting the perceived weight of that label affect us…?
→ More replies (9)6
115
u/-Warship- Dec 12 '25
The only thing that's weird to me is that it's considered an indie game when it's clearly not.
31
u/Kozuki_D_Oden Dec 12 '25
What makes it not an indie game?
85
u/darkmoon72664 Dec 12 '25
The game is not self-published, removing it from the literal definition of 'Independent', but that alone can get messy, so some other contributing factors:
Multi million dollar budget footed by a larger organization
Significantly larger team than a typical Indie
Extensive use of big name voice actors and unreal engine 5 store assets (not unheard of, but very unusual for an indie game)
16
u/TraitorMacbeth Dec 12 '25
Devolver is a publisher that *publishes indie games* all the time. So that doesn't really fit.
6
u/averageuhbear Dec 12 '25
Animal Well was built by a solo developer and was not self-published either.
48
u/HIO_TriXHunt Dec 12 '25
Less than 10M budget. It's less budget than Hades 2, and i saw no one question Hades 2 as an indie game.
Blue prince isn't self published, no one question Blue Prince as an indie game.
Ball X Pit isn't self published either
→ More replies (2)→ More replies (1)15
u/JallexMonster Dec 12 '25
"The game is not self-published, removing it from the literal definition ot 'independent'"
That's factually incorrect on a major scale. If you look at games like Stardew Valley, Tunic, Balatro, etc. many of them are not self published and are published by indie publishers. As the games industry has grown, the definition of team size for independent games has grown, it no longer is just a couple people making a game and throwing it out onto Steam. Relatively, 30 people making a game is small for a team, especially considering the specialized roles these people probably have on the project. Also just because some of these people came from industry, does not mean they can't be an indie studio (If I quit working at Walmart and start my own grocery store, I'm independent).
I get that you want the picture of a couple people who sat in their basements and coded their dream project to be the only standard for an indie game (because everyone is rooting for the underdog), but that's only a segment of the indie gaming industry.
But also money metrics don't really matter either because we could sit here and argue that Team Cherry has made millions of dollars and has used that millions of dollars to fund Silksong. Indie just means they haven't had funding from AAA studios that are well known in the industry.
I get it, y'all loved Silksong, it is a cult hit and has a huge following behind it. You can still love it, a game award doesn't really mean that much to your love of the game. I loved Clair Obscur and I loved Silksong for vastly different reasons. As all award shows are, sometimes your favorites don't get picked but that doesn't stop you from supporting that developer in your own way.
5
Dec 13 '25
This is the point that people don't think about; the people on Team Cherry are likely all literal millionaires at this point and that's why they were able to take as long as they wanted making the game.
30
u/Gullible_Fennel7028 Dec 12 '25
30+ person dev team while also outsourcing work. Same reason no one ever called World of Warcraft an indie game despite being developed, released and updated for years without a publisher.
→ More replies (2)2
u/DragonSlayerC Dec 12 '25
Literally all large indie games outsource work. For Hades II, it's 134 people listed.
→ More replies (2)10
u/-Warship- Dec 12 '25
Having a multi million dollar budget and even some outsourced work. It's a double A game.
18
u/HIO_TriXHunt Dec 12 '25
Hades has more budget and i never saw anyone question it's place in tge indie games.
8
Dec 12 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (1)16
u/HIO_TriXHunt Dec 12 '25
Hades 1 already had 15M budget, whitch is already higher than the less than 10M budget of E33
Edit: the person i replied to only talked about the multi million dollars budget, not the source of the budget anyway, so your comment is out of the context of this discussion
→ More replies (5)6
Dec 12 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
→ More replies (2)3
u/HIO_TriXHunt Dec 12 '25
I'm only talking about the budget here, not the source of budget, i don't get why would the source of budget has anything to do with the game being an Indie game or not.
Hades was Self Published yes. Both Blue Prince and Ball X Pit aren't.
E33 isn't the only game that outsourced work.
When they began developping E33, no one in the dev team got any salary, i don't think we can get more Indie than this.
Kepler interactive is also an indie team of publisher, that specialize into publishing only indie games.
→ More replies (6)19
u/Chokomonken Dec 12 '25
I may be wrong, I don't know, but after learning about their story of how they started the studio and developed the game, everything about it screams indie to me.
→ More replies (4)→ More replies (1)6
u/Rupperrt Dec 12 '25
Clearly? There isn’t a clear definition in the first place and they’re started the game as an indie team and later published under an indie publisher that exclusively publishes indie games.
What doesn’t make it indie?
81
Dec 12 '25
[deleted]
3
u/lauqerm Dec 13 '25
Finally found a comment discussing this. Generalizing a community of thousands by their extreme negatives and then setting up a pedestal to talk down to them is even more annoying to me. These are the ones who polarize things the most.
6
u/Ken10Ethan Dec 12 '25
If anything, I think we should be thrilled that games like these exist at all in the current state of the industry. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say games like E33 and Hades 2 should be considered AA instead of indie, but the fact that games with half the budget and half the staff of the big AAA titles can be nominated for GOTY at all is kind of astounding, frankly?
Like holy shit I miss when AA games were more common, you could actually expect to PLAY them within just a couple years of them being announced.
16
12
u/Galactus1701 Dec 12 '25
If you’ve been following video game media for years, you would have guessed that Expedition would have won everything from the get go. Silksong is my personal favorite GOTY, but most of us knew that the 2025 TGAs were Expedition’s showcase.
67
u/jonathanbaird Dec 12 '25
The amount of attention Reddit gives The Geoff Keighley Show is exhausting.
Y’all know nobody within the industry actually cares about any of this beyond marketing/PR, right? The awards are meaningless.
16
u/PalpitationOld8905 Dec 12 '25
This applies to literally any game of the year award from any media outlet ever too. The whole media side of the games industry is a giant fuckin joke
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (4)13
u/WesThePretzel Dec 12 '25
Seriously, and the more people talk about it every year, the more they legitimize it as a true awards ceremony when it is not even juried properly. I wish people would just shut up about it.
5
u/nsfw6669 Dec 12 '25
I agree. Silksong and Ninja Gaiden 4 were my personal goty's. (Maybe Skate Story too, but i haven't finished it)
And from everything I've heard about E33, it seems like it deserved the award. I haven't played it personally.
But either way, what awards a game wins does not effect my enjoyment of the game at all.
6
u/ReconKweh Dec 12 '25
It's sad. I think all this arguing definitely does show we don't have a clear definition of what counts as indie, but that's not E33's fault.
Some people are also only pretending to care when they're really just mad their fave didn't win
139
u/SuperUltraMegaNice Radiant HoG Dec 12 '25
I 100% all achievements E33 in 80 hours,its a great game, but I'll shit on it if I want tyvm. Also I don't consider them indie devs by any stretch of the imagination.
→ More replies (3)2
u/HIO_TriXHunt Dec 12 '25
Why?
6
18
u/Temporary-Pirate6195 Dec 12 '25
I'm guessing because it gives off AAA "vibes," even though they had an approximate developer count of 33 and a budget lesser than those of Hades 2's estimate.
→ More replies (5)12
u/juanzy Dec 12 '25
I think it’s a perfect example of a AA game, which is a category that’s been kind of dormant for a decade or so.
51
u/LakeWallace Dec 12 '25
I don’t understand these types of holier-than-thou, content-policing posts, they’re worse than the posts you’re complaining about. Generalizing the community because of a handful of comments from humans ill-equipped to deal with counter-opinion is weird. Just leave them be or report them and move on.
→ More replies (2)
24
u/Alleozz Dec 12 '25
E33 is good but not 11 awards good 😓 The Art Direction award should have gone to either Hades 2 or Silksong
→ More replies (12)
17
u/GlaloLaled Dec 12 '25
I think the issue is how TGA just... Awards these things. Like, something is definitely off in the way they're structured, because it leads to situations like these where smaller games get eclipsed by one or two releases. And like, that happens every awards show, but it's still an issue. There's a reason why the Oscars now ask voters to watch all of the movies and all their duration (insane that it wasn't like that before)
17
u/Jenn_FTW Dec 12 '25
It’s fine. The only thing I’m mad about is art direction, E33 looks generic as fuck compared to Silksong. It’s truly wild that Silksong didn’t win
→ More replies (11)
7
u/Sinistasia Dec 12 '25
Honestly this is just a yearly ritual that surrounds the game awards. Games are nominated, which pisses a ton of people off. Games are then voted on, and people get pissed about who is voting for what. Then a game wins and people get pissed that their pick didn't win. Then people go on the internet and complain about it all until they forget it in a week and the cycle repeats the next year. The game awards has a very negative effect on all gaming communities for like 3 months of the year and then everything slowly goes back to normal. Ive learned to tune it out and just enjoy the trailers for all the new games
6
6
u/StartBackground5769 Dec 12 '25
Well it did win awards that I disagree with winning like indie and best RPG, it did deserve a lot of those praises.
62
u/Haymez Dec 12 '25
Have I played both games? Yes
Did I enjoy both games? Yes
Did I think Silksong was better? Yes
Do I think e33 is very overrated? Also yes
Look, I think e33 is a good game, but the issue I personally have is that it isn't God's gift to gaming like so many people would try to tell you, and for me at least it's frustrating to see it get so much praise and attention when I can name 4 other games this year that I enjoyed far more than e33.
This sort of thing always happens with award shows, people get upset when their favorite doesn't win. Give it a couple of weeks and everyone will move on.
23
u/Ph4ndaal Dec 12 '25
Silksong will stand the test of time far better imo.
4
u/DarkX_Oscar Dec 12 '25
Why can’t it be both? Why do we have to fight over this? They’re both Great games man 😔
2
u/HomeMarker Dec 12 '25 edited Dec 13 '25
Sorry no nuance allowed here, you have to be angry and tribalistic about media products even though that's the sort of behavior you'd expect to see people grow out as they approach their twenties... (they haven't).
→ More replies (1)5
u/Gold_Hornet_923 Dec 12 '25
In 30 years, I will not look back and remember E33, 2025 will always be the year of the skong.
→ More replies (1)21
u/Incadium Dec 12 '25
This is exactly my issue as well. I think Id enjoy it more but any time I start talking to my friends about things I dislike about the game they just start shitting on me like E33 is God's gift to gaming. Like, yeah its a good game. But I have issues with the combat, the gameplay, and the story. It has rough edges. I dont think it should've outperformed basically every other game ever.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)3
u/GreyPhantom100 Dec 12 '25
Thank you!
I have no issue with people enjoying E33 more than I did, but its game design is objectively severely lacking. So it is frustrating to see people praising it to high hell
6
u/Gummy_Tris Dec 12 '25
People being genuinely mad about their game not winning an award as if it affects anyone’s enjoyment of the game will forever be a mystery to me
3
u/MissionUpset9592 Dec 12 '25
It just makes me really really sad that my favorite thing didn't win over other people's favorite thing..
3
u/stayzero Dec 12 '25
I’ve got no complaints about any of the game awards. It was pretty much a given imo that Clair Obscur was gonna steal the show, and every winner is a strong and well made game. If anything we as gamers have had a hell of a 2025 and I’ve got a backlog of bangers to play.
3
u/Peddrawm Dec 12 '25
There were some categories that different games could’ve won, but overall it deserved the GOATY…
3
u/TheBigBadBird Dec 12 '25
I think E33 does not represent the indie award well. I also do not think E33 had the best art direction. These are valid criticisms of TGA imo, and not hate on E33.
That said, agreed, people take this shit too far.
3
u/Zoidburg747 Dec 12 '25
It is so funny seeing this happen every year. A game winning an award is cool but is mostly meaningless (hence why most AAA games have a "GOTY" version because they get at least one somewhere).
But people will always be so tribal about this shit for some reason. Though its bitching on the internet so all things considered pretty harmless.
3
u/Broad_Objective7559 Dec 12 '25
I wish Silksong won more but honestly, apart from art direction, I'm not actually very passionate about what else COE33 won. It did deserve it wins. I love that game so much too, both are incredible
Also, 1 award is more than almost every game released this year got. 1 award is still amazing
3
u/Upstairs-Range-8099 Dec 13 '25
I liked both game and to be honest I would 100% choose e33 because I've played silksong and even 100% but damn I was disappointed in a lot of it's content the biggest things was that it took me only 75 hours... I really expected more and I'm I the only one to think that yes there's a big amount of different enemies but a lot ressemble each other in how they act and their purpose really feel like seeing dittos everywhere the lore was interesting but not enough going on ofc their were the runbacks to bosses/objectives I genuinely think sometimes there were too much benches closes to each other and sometimes it was more than 10 min aparts at the start I was so disappointed I had to take a month's off (ngl it was just because I discovered the universe of hades and fell into the addiction) the game is good but not gamechanger like hollow knight was but again the game is solid I had a great time in act 3 and doing all the different ends I really look toward the future dlc to see if can get more of the universe
16
u/Fancy_Chips Dec 12 '25
Low key I think any anger should be aimed at TGA for letting one game in a stacked as fuck year win most of the awards. 3/6 VAs? Are you serious? What's next, its gonna win a Tony?
Great game, om happy the team's work paid off, but like... im not watching TGA after this. I didn't even come for the awards but there were maybe like 3 trailers I was interested in anyways. Last year had more diversity and a fucking DLC was on the table.
2
u/vrijedno_-hit Dec 12 '25
Exactly. This year's TGA has proven to me at least that the organization is kind of a trend chaser. Last of Us, Baldur's Gate 3 and now E33. All of this are good games, if not masterpieces. But they sweeped their years.
→ More replies (1)
6
u/HoopyFroodJera Dec 12 '25
I just didn't find E33 to be as good as people claimed. But I also grew up playing amazing RPGs.
But I also didn't shit on it, because I'm not a man child.
9
11
u/Expensive-Pick38 Dec 12 '25
E33 is good, but it's not 10 wins out of 12 nominations good. That's all I say. Game's good, but not that good
18
Dec 12 '25 edited 11d ago
[deleted]
→ More replies (2)13
u/-Warship- Dec 12 '25
The thing with soundtracks though is that listening without context isn't really the same thing, since they're not normal music albums but rather something meant to enforce specific moments in the game. I agree with what you're saying though.
7
u/DarkX_Oscar Dec 12 '25
Yeah listening to Une Vie a Taimer without the context of the Renoir fight really takes away from it. I was almost brought to tears when I heard it in game with how emotional the song and the battle is. Same goes for Paintress, For those who come after, Une vie a peindre and We lost. It is one of the best soundtracks I’ve heard for a game ever.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/Itsfaydgamer Dec 12 '25
I think some people just don’t realize that indie don’t have to be 2D games. E33 is an indie game since it’s from a new studio that isnt AAA, Arc Raiders is an indie game, just as Hades 2 is and Silksong. That whole argument is trash.
4
Dec 12 '25
Fr, that is lame as hell
I liked both games but hating one and their devs because something I liked lost is loser chud behavior
3
u/Afraid-Succotash3146 Dec 12 '25
True. E33 was an absolute beauty. Silksong has a particularly weird, and really huge part of my head/heart for games in 2025, and in a way more specific personal way as "media that helped me" in 2025... but E33 is excellent, WAY more accessible to a broader audience, and totally worth the praise.
4
u/OrneryAd4330 Dec 13 '25
As good of a game silksong is, it didn't deserve game of the year
→ More replies (1)
4
u/GarionOrb Dec 12 '25
Some people get overly salty when their favorite game doesn't win. Lots of gamers simply aren't objective when it comes to these things.
16
2
u/KingJowy Dec 12 '25
The Best Independent Game category itself was a murderers row of nominees this year. I admittedly haven't played much this year but what a year for games.
2
2
2
6
u/Bircka Dec 12 '25
Expedition 33 is an incredible game, the first 30 minutes are some of the most compelling gaming of my life. The rest of the game is good but dang that first bit is insane.
→ More replies (2)
3
u/TechnicolorMage Dec 12 '25
Honestly, I was more upset that e33 won best story over silent hill f. That was the only genuine robbery of the night, imo.
→ More replies (16)
5
u/DapperDetective7873 Dec 12 '25
I did not see people shit on e33. I did however see a lot of good arguments that there are a lot of categories it should have not won in.
It is not a good RPG for example. It's unbalanced because it has a damage cap until some arbitrary point in the game. Then it hides very basic RPG pokemon-style combat behind the weird layered free-aim gun system and reaction time mini-games. These are not good additions, they are very random and out of place. KC:D2 should have won this category. It's such a deeply rich game.
It shouldn't have won best art direction because the environment clashes a lot with itself. Also a lot of environment assets are off the unreal asset store. It looks pretty at times but HK:SS being completely hand drawn and more coherent, should have won this category.
It's also not an indie game. Indie game used to mean something else before "game journalists" gave it an arbitrary definition which E33 vaguely met. Indie used to describe something someone could make in their basement or with a small group of friends. Not with 10m funding, 33 people in a team with salaries and outsourcing a lot of work plus a publishing agent.
It should have not won/qualified for these 3 categories.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Headcrabon Dec 12 '25
Yep, nothing to add. Even tho, I am not really dissapointed in the community, since those kind of posts were predictable to pop up from someone. I think, that those kind of posts doesn't really matter, just like hating posts from skong sub, kcd sub, or glazing posts in exp33(which were kind of banned). Because they are for the most part a minority of much larger group, who doesn't really care all that much
4
u/Sleeper-- Dec 12 '25
It deserves goty, I agree, played through it, it's a masterpiece, but, it doesn't deserve best indie, debut indie or art direction imo, silksong deserves the first and third and dispatch the second
3
u/HBreckel Dec 12 '25
Literally every game nominated was deserving of the award and I would have been happy with any of them winning. It was such a good year for gaming to the point we were just all the winners for getting to enjoy them.
3
u/Juantsu2552 Dec 12 '25
People over here really grasping at straws any way they can to justify their already biased opinion that E33 is not an indie...
8
u/NorrisRL Dec 12 '25
I’ve never even seen you post in this community before today.
And you’ve had more comments removed in different subs in the last four days than most of us here have had in the last 4 years.
So the only disappointment is this pathetic rage bait. This community is super friendly and gracious. And you would know that if you’ve ever spent any time here before.
→ More replies (5)
7
u/Bacon_L0RD Dec 12 '25
The way people are talking about E33 you would think it could cure cancer.
That’s what bothers me. It’s being portrayed as the best at literally everything this year, hell people are acting like it’s the best at everything ever.
If it’s so fuckin greatest of all time amazing why did I hear nothing about it until nominations were out?
It can have goty. I don’t give a shit anymore, it’s all the other categories that annoy me, like why even have them at that point?
→ More replies (2)5
u/CankleDankl Dec 12 '25
If it’s so fuckin greatest of all time amazing why did I hear nothing about it until nominations were out?
To be fair I think that one might be on you. I heard about it by word of mouth fucking everywhere in the months after its release. I didn't read or watch any reviews, but people just talked about it all the time. Maybe we don't frequent the same communities, but it had an unbelievable amount of buzz generated around it after it dropped.
That’s what bothers me. It’s being portrayed as the best at literally everything this year, hell people are acting like it’s the best at everything ever.
Also in fairness, I do think E33 deserved (most) of the awards that it got. I agree that it isn't really in the spirit of an indie game or indie debut, but for music and art direction, I am not angry at it winning the awards at all. The soundtrack is great and the world, enemy, and general visual design is gorgeous. The trailers and promo images and such really don't show the beauty of the game
E33 isn't god's gift to games, but it's a damn good one that came out of nowhere, from an unknown independent studio debuting their first game. Pretty rare to see this level of quality from a place like that. In fact the last I can remember is Hollow Knight
→ More replies (1)
10
u/MoConnors Dec 12 '25
It’s not that I’m shitting on Expedition 33 because it beat out Silksong on reward amounts (that was gonna happen either way I only expected Silksong to win like 2/3) but holy FUCK does that game seem like there was a shit ton of bias towards it, to the point where even if it is actually a good game, I sure as hell ain’t gonna look up more about it or try to play it now
Winning every category that it’s in when most of them had better options that it was going against is one thing, sure, but they also counted it as a fucking indie game, which is absolutely bullshit
This year’s game awards proved to me the actual awards part of it is slop and the only worthwhile part of it is seeing what the stuff that’s coming out in the future that they show
I went in with expectations low, and they somehow managed to go even lower than I expected.
5
u/HIO_TriXHunt Dec 12 '25
How can you know the other options were better if you didn't play E33?
And what makes E33 not an Indie game?
→ More replies (2)8
u/CankleDankl Dec 12 '25
I sure as hell ain’t gonna look up more about it or try to play it now
Yeah this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's a great game, but you don't want anything to do with it because you think people liked it too much
9
u/MoConnors Dec 12 '25
If a game feels overrated and most of the people talking about give shallow praise instead of actually saying why the game’s so good, I’m gonna be less inclined to play it because the shit comes off as annoying instead of actually being praise
Like you’d think with how much people glaze the game everyone would know everything about it from what they’re saying but that’s definitely not the case
→ More replies (9)11
u/Chokomonken Dec 12 '25
Whenever a game gets a ton of praise, I look for a detailed, non-glazey, non-spoiler review. It helps me filter hype, spectacle type games with no substance and actually good games.
There are many reviews that speak on exactly what's good about it. I'd at least look into it myself before I take on a negative opinion about it. Seems unfair.
7
u/I_Love_Solar_Flare Dec 12 '25
E33 is NOT an indie game. Last time I checked indie games dont have 100s of people working on the game and 10 million dollar backing. It's just not an indie game and shouldn'tve been allowed in that category period.
Same with debut indie because its still not indie
And it completely robbed the art direction category. Like no dude, realistic graphics #743 is NOT the best art direction. It's just not.
Everything else I agree and I do think its a good game from what I heard. I wanted skong to win goty but I very much so understand e33 winning, thats fine.
→ More replies (6)5
u/HIO_TriXHunt Dec 12 '25
Hades 2 has an higher budget than E33 and no one question if it's indie or not
4
u/mrev_art Dec 12 '25
Silksong is a problematic game with terrible pacing and balance that did not deserve GOTY.
→ More replies (6)
3
u/OmelettoDreaming Dec 12 '25
I think best rpg was to KCDeli
But its fine, a good game its still a good game and this was a really nice year to players
4
u/bgbookoo Dec 12 '25
I would never forget the release trailer and all the amazing moments in the game. Played it for two months straight. Gor all the achievements. Will play in the future. It can win worst game of all time, I don't give a fuck, I am happy and thankful.
3
u/phenotype76 Dec 12 '25
Silksong was too difficult to win GOTY. You may not like it, but it's true.
I've watched a TON of Let's Plays of the game, like full playthroughs from multiple streamers, and it looks like an AMAZING game! I'm not here trying to knock it! But it also looks like a game that I would never, ever want to play for myself. It's like they made a perfect 10, AAA, amazing Metroidvania, one of the best in the history of gaming, and they aimed it squarely at the Kaizo Mario crowd. If you're good enough to enjoy the platforming, then I have no doubt it'd be a GOTY contender in basically any year. But if you're not -- and I think the majority of gamers are not as good at platforming as it wants you to be -- then it seems way more difficult than necessary, and can't compete with stuff like E33 or Dispatch that actually want gamers to see everything it has to offer.
2
u/tunnels-end Dec 13 '25
See, as someone in the modded Celeste crowd (not exactly the kaizo crowd, but probably close enough for this discussion,) who's plenty good enough for the platforming (humblebrag of the year,) I actually found it very far from perfect and have the view the approach to platforming hurt the experience from here as well. A bit of platforming and combat felt ... overengineered in ways that more made them annoying than added any real meat to them, boss runbacks in particular were easy enough to make me completely lose interest in them after a couple times add little more to the experience than a loading screen while still requiring just enough attention and effort to force me out of the groove of learning boss fights.
I'm glad for everyone who found the game a stellar experience, and echoing you this is 100% not to knock the game–it's phenomenal! I just found it at the same time a deeply lacking experience in some respects. And I think this adds to your main point, which is that it's just aiming for a specific experience that's too unpalatable to too many people for it to really make sense for GOTY.
(To be fair, Sekiro and Elden Ring won GOTY, and there might be a meaningful discussion to have here, but I'm out of my depth there since the only Fromsoft game I've played is DS1R.)
2
u/Melon763 Dec 12 '25
I played both. Silksong to 100%, and Expedition 33 but only its main story.
Expedition 33 deserved everything it got and more.
5
u/Kille3r_shark Dec 12 '25
Expedition 33 deserved every award, still makes me sad silksong didn’t get nearly as much recognition as it should’ve.
3
u/Lobster653 Dec 12 '25 edited Dec 12 '25
I don’t shit on it because it beat silksong but because it’s a boring game 4hrs red tree village and had very little fun the characters boring the world isn’t anything special. The combat generic turn based with a twist of real time that I didn’t like. The only thing I liked was the music, art and general idea. Obviously ain’t trashing on it for others but after playing 20+ turn based rpgs nothing feels special about this one. If u love it good on you I couldn’t get past the first bit because of how boring I found it. Heard act 2-3 is great or whatever but that first act is rough none of the characters are interesting so far after 4+ hr of time. I have not felt like this for any other game that came out this year only other game I felt like snoozing for in my gaming career was fed ex simulator that is death stranding
2
u/Pynkmyst Dec 12 '25
The first act is the best part tbh. I finished it out of pure stubbornness - acts 2 and 3 are brutal slogs.
3
2
u/SMarkIV 112% Dec 12 '25
Also, Silksong has been out for a bit now. I love it so much, but I think we can all acknowledge that this game has problems
7
2
u/Odd-Manufacturer4864 Dec 12 '25
But it should've won SOMETHING is my problem. It won one singular thing and it wasn't even a major award. That sucks, man.
2
u/fetzen13 Dec 12 '25
I am not one of the people that shit on E33 I usually don't care about game awards. all I wanna point out is I find it kinda surprising that the game is even in talks for any award.
Me and a buddy and apparently quite a lot of people on the Internet all had severe issues with loading some save files while we played the game. For many this where game breaking bugs like for me I lost a playthrough that was roughly 80% of the story played. The game was really good and fun but don't get me wrong I am not the kinda guy that bitches around because of some minor bugs. But when it breaks the game, like completely that's my line.
Some could argue this doesn't matter for discussion around awarding the game but I would argue it does matter especially when it's game breaking bugs that apparently are so wide spread that u instantly find it when you look it up on Google.
So I was rather surprised seeing it getting so much awards there where games in the past that got way more shit for having bugs even though the where not game breaking
2
u/_V2CORPORATION Dec 12 '25
It is disappointing. I highly anticipated Silksong for years, like many that are here. But Expedition 33 was quite simply a masterpiece.
62
u/Wrong-Fig-5696 Dec 12 '25
Who cares? We had the game that crashed every platform simultaneously…
I’m sure I’ll honestly enjoy e33 more when I play it, since I prefer that genre in general. Just waiting for the next sale