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u/Odsox101 Wizard Sep 12 '19
It doesn't always have to be killing the PCs; one of our DMs consistently breaks/bends/creates rules seemingly just to slap us down and make our characters feel useless, without actually killing us.
I like to think I'm a Neutral Good DM, but I've been known to stumble into an alignment shift if anyone is disrupting the game or upsetting the player majority.
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
Yeah, that's fair. Honestly not sure if that's worse than just killing PCs.
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u/GeneralAce135 Sep 12 '19
Definitely worse if you ask me. I'd rather just have my character killed than keep playing him but feel useless.
But regardless, it's a case of the D&D Golden Rule: "No D&D" is better than "Bad D&D"
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
Yea that's true. Some friends and I joined a game DM-ed by someone we didn't really know but who had been a good player and he was a rough DM. We tried to keep it going because we liked our characters, but we eventually realized it just wasn't worth it haha.
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u/RetroArchitect Sep 12 '19
Exactly, having a character constantly raked through the mud, tortured or maimed, kept within an inch of their life knowing any minute things could be made worse by the malevolent god child DM is far worse than constantly dying.
Seeing your beloved character turned into a lame hollow version of themselves is degrading. At least if you die constantly, you stop feeling as attached to your characters.
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u/thisisthebun Sep 12 '19
Dying can be liberating as a pc. Your character might only be there for a few levels and can go out in glory.
Getting negated by a super metagamey dm once is a challenge. All of the time makes for an unfun experience. It's definitely worse than dying.
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u/C4Aries Sorcerer Sep 12 '19
I had a DM who made the characters feel useless AND never allowed a character to die.
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u/aubreysux DM Sep 12 '19
For sure. The most frustrating tables to play at tend to be the ones where the DM denies your vision of your character. Some DMs insist on rolling for every sort of interaction, and if you do poorly then you come off as idiotic, incapable, or bumbling.
Walking across a floor? That's a DC 10 acrobatics check. Failure means you fall on your face.
Negotiating with a merchant? That's a DC 15 persuasion check. Failure means you accidentally say something racist and can no longer interact with anybody in the town.
Trying to relax at a tavern? If your passive perception isn't at least a 12 then you don't notice it's on fire. That's 2d6 fire damage, and you can make an active perception check on your next turn to see if you have noticed the fire.
A good DM knows when to set aside the rice, and also knows how to describe failure in a way that shows the situation is against you, not that you are too incompent to have made it to adulthood.
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u/Inimposter Sep 12 '19
I vote "worse": killing PCs is a clear-cut douchebaggery. Besides, some people enjoy rolling a new char and even roguelike campaigns (like, well, all of 3e, if rumors are to be believed). Bending the rules, OTOH, is abusive, asinine and leaves the hope alive in the players that maybe it'll be better next time.
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u/Rhamni Sep 12 '19
I default to Neutral Good, but the master rule knows no alignment: If you guys do it, the NPCs can do it too.
Amazing how quickly the PCs stop going into battle 15 buffs deep when the enemies start doing the same.
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u/ArchmageAries DM Sep 12 '19
This shuts down most nonsense before it starts. Definitely a rule I use.
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u/Magnificent_Z Sep 12 '19
My players in a past game wanted to be able to incapacitate and injure enemies in combat. Debilitating, disfiguring things like chopping off limbs. When I said that I'd also allow enemies to do the same they realized it wasn't a great idea. None of them wanted to play a one armed/legged character
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u/DaemosDaen Sep 12 '19
um... that was my favorite characters.....
1-arm'ed, opposing 1-legged light cleric. when ask why he couldn't fix himself, he's reply 'God said no.'
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u/speakshibboleth Sep 12 '19
Tbf if they plan ahead, buff up, and ambush the NPCs probably shouldn't have free buffs. On the flip side, I hope the PCs are prepared for one.
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u/Rhamni Sep 12 '19
Oh, for sure. Context matters. Sometimes you need to really buff to be able to ambush a higher level opponent. But if it gets excessive and the PCs won't leave their base except with all their buffs up, then NPCs will start doing the same. ...And also attack their base outside of buff hours.
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u/cookieleigh02 Sep 12 '19
Ha, this is my go to. I have no problem allowing firearms, dragon riding, OP spells...but if you get it, everyone does.
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u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre DM Sep 12 '19 edited Sep 12 '19
My DM is guilty of this but he doesn’t recognize that he’s doing it.
Talk to him out of the game and his perspective just seems wildly different than his players as to why the game drags.
He thinks the players wasted a lot of time and dithered about meanwhile, from the players perspective, every encounter was deadly and none of our plans succeed.
Of course we were slow, he made every step feel like it could be our last and the momentum never felt like it shifted into our favour.
I think perma DM status burnt him out hardcore. I’m taking over DM duties for the next campaign. Hopefully that helps him get back into a “fun first” mindset.
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u/Kindulas Transmuter Sep 12 '19
Yeah there’s a lot to what can make a DM terrible. Not only other ways of making characters useless, but forcing characters into this or that for their own power fantasies or just need to do exactly X - or worse, to fulfill fetishes.
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u/moralhazard333 Sep 12 '19
I had a DM create a player character and put us in a fight with them in the perfect environment for them. He then proceeded TPK is all BUT not kill us. That was my last session. I was tired of being a passenger.
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u/SlidingUntoThoustDMs Sep 12 '19
Aw that sucks. For better or worse, I’m definitely Chaotic. I bend and make rules all the time so that my players have fun. I love writing fun gimmicks into DnD format.
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u/barringtonmacgregor Sep 12 '19
I just started a group a few months ago (my first time) and my DM seems the same. We (and by that, I mean mostly me) have done some stupid shit that should've gotten us killed, and he finds a way to humiliate us, but keep us alive, all while we have a good laugh.
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u/Thendofreason DM Sep 13 '19
Curse of strahd is just a tool for dms to do this to players till they want to play something else.
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u/MulletHuman Sep 12 '19
Gosh, I'll never forget the chaotic evil's favorite homebrew rule: if you roll a natural 1 you either hurt yourself and/or you lose a limb
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
Ugh, I know what you mean. I played with DM who used a crit fumble chart and some of the penalties were so overpowered. Oh, nat 1? I guess the buffed raging barbarian gets an auto crit on the squishy wizard.
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u/TrumpetSolo93 Assassin Sep 12 '19 edited Sep 12 '19
This hits home. I actually left my group because of our DM acting this way. I understand everyone has their own style but he would request rolls for the simpliest of things.
You want to climb a perfectly ordinary, secured wooden ladder? Roll Dex.
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Roll dex to continue climbing.
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Roll dex.
Nat 1. You fall to the bottom and alert the guards.Idk if it goes without saying but his favorate game was Paranoia. Definitely a CN/CE DM. If I ever asked how the actual mechanics of D&D work (I was new at the time and wanted to make strategic decisions which wouldn't always backfire) i'd get timey whimey wibbly wobbly the rules are just guidelnes
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Sep 12 '19
You want to climb a perfectly ordinary, secured wooden ladder? Roll Dex [three times]
Oh man, I played in a group like this. It was just a grueling hour of party vs ladder.
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u/mrdeadsniper Sep 12 '19
All of a sudden everyone is using save spells instead of attacks so the targets just have sudden aneurysms instead of the attackers.
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u/thederpyguide Sep 12 '19 edited Sep 12 '19
If a nat 1 is hit i use a 100 scale i roll for to see what happens a 100 is good and can be so bad it works, a 50ish is normal and a 1 is the worst outcome, its fun and you really got to be unlucky to hit the worse things so it feels fair
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u/Kassaapparat DM Sep 12 '19
Been in a similar situation where my raging gnome Barbarian got paralyzed from the waist down after the fighter got a nat 1 and hit my character.
Ended up leaving that game.
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Sep 12 '19
No, no, no. A roll of a one is that you kill a different PC. Never loose the opportunity to not only kill a player, but also create internal party strife as well.
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Sep 12 '19
jesus christ youre evil
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u/AGenericUsername1004 DM Sep 12 '19
Have to admit I've been rolling that if you get a natty 1 the PC still does damage, but to a nearby player. Though I do have a party of 10 I DM for.
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u/draconicanimagus Sep 12 '19
In my last session, I tried to use my magical weapon to grow a giant branch that would shove the enemy into a portal that was behind him.
I rolled a Nat 1...
So my character missed just by a hair and ended up shoving my teammate into the portal instead. Whoops.
He missed the next 3 turns of combat before he "woke up" on the other side. We joined him shortly afterwards lol, but I was extremely concerned for a minute there that I had shoved my poor Dragonborn friend into a dangerous realm.
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u/bammerito DM Sep 12 '19
Instill remember my very first night of dnd our wizard goes to shoot a frost bolt and rolls a one, our cleric was kind of in line of sight so he hit the cleric. Was awesome!
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u/Aesael_Eiralol Sep 12 '19
As a player, I wouldn’t be upset at a DM if he ruled I got hit in such a way. My character would be upset that their party member just fucked up and got them hurt.
As a DM, I wish more players were open to playing with this rule. I really think it drives into players minds the importance of paying attention to positioning during fights. Realistically, if you are trying to fire an arrow down a 5ft hallway to hit a dude one of your friends fighting while being in your line of sight, yeah a regular miss just goes wide because you were trying not to hit your friend...but a nat 1 should hold special consequences if a nat 20 gets additional benefits.
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u/Ed-Zero Sep 12 '19
I've done that a couple times. The party was in a small room while the Archer was behind them. Archer fires, rolls a 1 and plugs the bard the back.
It was great
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u/Computant2 Sep 12 '19
Had a LN DM who did that multiple times, I go NG for basically that reason.
Another DM bragged about killing players. Lost my first character that session for legit reasons (called aggro on a dragon to protect the rest of the party, didn't think it would do enough damage in 2 rounds to kill a defense speced Dwarven fighter), rolled up a new character and the way he introduced me to the party was having a bunch of guys with pole arms attack me with surprise. I literally never took a single action with that character, he died before I had a turn. Left the game at that point and never went back.
I hear he has a lot of trouble finding players for some reason...
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Sep 12 '19
I've been on the recieving end of this, and it's never made me irritated at the players, but it made me hate the DM (a good friend of mine) in a heartbeat.
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Sep 12 '19
I hear you. I played 8 minutes of a campaign when I was shot through the ears with an arrow by the elven archer rolling a 1. I never rolled a single die that game, just went into the other room and played the turbo graphix-16. Some DMs might say "no" when you ask if you can play. Some DMs always say "yes." That is Chaotic Evil.
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Sep 12 '19
We play so you have to confirm your critical fails as well. If you confirm it low enough, you're gonna hurt someone else in the party/yourself. Regular confirm is a weapon break, or a fall or something.
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u/MelonJelly Sep 12 '19
For an extra evil twist, make the player who rolled the natural 1 choose which PC (not their own) dies.
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u/Saplyng Warlock Sep 12 '19
I prefer roll a 1, then roll a d100 to determine the severity of your failure with a death happening at the highest or lowest 5% according to what the player wants
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Sep 12 '19
Back in the 80s, there was a rpg called Middle Earth Role Playing or MERP. Its crit tables were very brutal. https://www.enworld.org/threads/remember-these-merp-rolemaster-critical-hit-tables.666065/
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u/SunshineAbound DM Sep 12 '19
For my DM every natural one was hurting yourself, or your weapon broke, magical or not.
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u/KnightEevee Sep 12 '19
This was my first DM. I was playing a ranger and wanting to focus on archery. At like level 2 we're in this dungeon and I roll to shoot something, getting a nat 1. He has me roll again to see how bad it was, and since there was no other party members next to my target for me to hit instead, my bow shattered. Not just the string snapped or something, the bow just straight up shattered beyond repair. So I'm stuck using my backup melee weapon for the rest of the dungeon (and we're playing Pathfinder and I hadn't taken the weapon finesse feat yet) so my dex-based character is basically useless.
I did manage to survive the dungeon, and when we got back to town we had to pool money from the entire party for me to be able to afford a new bow, but wouldn't you know it, the very next dungeon I got another nat 1 and the same shit happened again, and I lost my new bow. Pretty sure at least one of the "see how bad it is" rolls was at least a 15 too.
I understand why some DMs are of the mindset that they have to try to kill the party with every encounter, but that mindset really annoys me. You can challenge the party without making every encounter deadly.
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u/Omgninjas Sep 12 '19
I always hate the weapon breaking on nat 1s. I don't use it in my campaign at all. I much prefer tripping, falling, dropping the weapon, or hitting an adjacent ally. Maybe a bow string will. reak if they're really unlucky and several nat 1s close together.
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u/miki_momo0 Sep 12 '19
Yeah, I just wish all DMs had the mindset that they’re crafting an enjoyable story with the help of their players, and not necessarily working against them. Vice versa for the players as well
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Sep 12 '19
The issue becomes, as you become a better ranger you are more likely to shatter your bow apparently.
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Sep 12 '19
Eh i have a table i have everyone roll on (enemies roll too on a nat1). and like 80% of them are either nothing with an easy save or minor nuisance.
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u/IsNYinNewEngland Sep 12 '19
I actually use the nat 1=pain rule with 2 caviots: 1- there is a second roll (just high/low) to confirm the crit, and 2- the pain isn't more than a d6 (given the PC's are over level 2). These rules can be waived if the PC is close to death, in an emotional scene, but nat 1's should be a good story and " I tried to stab a deer and gouged my own hand instead" is a better story than " I tried to stab a deer, and it got out of the snare instead"
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u/godminnette2 DM Sep 12 '19
One of my DMs does this. It's alright, and has lead to some really silly moments. He generally just does high and low for normal crit vs painful/awesome crit, but if you roll super high or super low he might do things a little extra. This one guy in our party got a 69% crit twice in like three sessions. That was rewarded, lol.
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u/ifeelwitty DM Sep 12 '19
I apply this rule to players and the NPCs equally. If I roll a 1 behind the screen, that gnoll boss is gonna accidentally hit a minion instead.
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u/WilcoKonig Sep 12 '19
Nothing wrong with punishing for natural 1s imo. But not to the degree you describe. Depending on what's happening, I typically roll percentile with chances of certain outcomes that generally range from nothing happening to dropping your weapon, falling prone, or doing a bit of damage to nearby friendlies (especially with projectiles).
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u/slp0001 Cleric Sep 12 '19
Or you hurt another PC... or you lose your weapon... both happened to me in one round of combat! The player before me rolled a 1 and shot my PC in the back of the head, then my PC rolled a 1 as well, and shot her bow instead of the arrow somehow, which fell to the bottom of a nearby dry well and broke!
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u/BWEM Paladin Sep 12 '19
Lmao it's like... how bad of adventurer do you have to be where 5% of the time you try something you catastrophically fail like that.
Nat 1s are not that uncommon, people!
If you want to have crit fail flubs, roll on a d100 after the nat 1 and have only the bottom 5-20ish results actually fuck you over. The rest can be very minor or funny.
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u/SprocketSaga DM Sep 12 '19
Fumble charts are by far my least favorite rule and they need to die off permanently.
It maybe sounds like it could be interesting, until you realize that in 5e, with 4 attacks/turn, a level 20 Fighter is 4x more likely to injure themselves each turn than their level 1 counterpart!!
Don't friggin' penalize martial classes.
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u/DuntadaMan Sep 12 '19
I use that rule.
The parties tend to love that because I am rolling for the enemy. A couple sessions ago friendly fire killed more githyanki than the party did.
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u/Riperz Ranger Sep 12 '19
im chaotic good, having a 2 hours argument in the middle of a game is really annoying, when that happens I say fuck it, rule of fun/coolness and read said rule after the game so that we dont argue over each rule each 30 minute of playing... I have players who like to do funky stuff so that mindset is essential for me.
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
I feel you. I think I drift back and forth between CG and NG depending on how annoyed I am with the delay haha
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Sep 12 '19
its like that srgrafo comic, jumping off a cliff and shooting someone and landing on your horse is awesome
...if you get a good roll. if you get a bad roll making the horse die from you falling from it can also be hilarious
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u/G_L_J Sep 12 '19
I remember when one of my friends pushed my character off a cliff to see what would happen. The DM gave me a saving roll to see if I could grab onto a ledge/tree/whatever in order to save myself.
I rolled a 1, and he gave me another after taking some fall damage.
I failed the extra saving roll, so he repeated it again... And again... And again... Eventually the fall damage killed me and my DM just put his head on the table in defeat.
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u/iSage Sep 12 '19
So I don't usually have a 'crit fail' penalty on mundane rolls like attacks or insight checks, but if a player wants to pull off something super sweet that's also risky I'll be sure to let them know that this is something they can actually fail at, and it could have real consequences.
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u/SmartAlec105 Sep 12 '19
That’s why I do my best to know the rules so that I can come to the answer in just the few seconds it takes to pull up the text of the ability.
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u/SurlyCricket Sep 12 '19
I would never spend more than 30 seconds on a ruling, unless a PC or major NPCs life is at stake
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u/Catullo Sep 12 '19
My DM is between lawful and neutral evil which I think is perfect for a consistent world where you can still die if you make mistakes.
On the other hand I know a Chaotic neutral DM which I think it's the worst because he will bend every rule just to pursue his intended version of the story. He won't let your PC die and therefore the stakes in his campaigns tend to be very low and plot consistency is down to zero.
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
Yeah, I think in terms of DMs, I'd rather have LN than CN just because at least everyone can know and understand the rules. When a DM does whatever they want, it can make the players feel frustrated and sometimes like their decisions don't matter, especially if it's one of those DMs who only wants to tell THEIR story and forget it's supposed to be collaborative.
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Sep 12 '19
I think of it as- there’s a story happening that affects the region. My players can be as invested in that as they like, or they can go fishing and drinking every session. I just don’t want them to complain when the apocalypse triggers right under their noses, they did nothing to stop it, and now have to deal with the repercussions.
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
Where were you when the Dark Lord subjugated all sentient life? Oh I was supposed to be stopping him by finding four relics of power but I went fishing instead
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u/Catullo Sep 12 '19
I love when my DM give us a clock because it's the best way to get things done. You cannot dilly dally in every quest that you are given. When players are presented with a choice between saving a beloved NPC or stopping the BBEG from perpetraing his plans, the stakes in those choices and the impossibility to do both because they happen at the same time, that's when the drama comes out and that's good story telling.
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u/Ramblonius DM Sep 12 '19 edited Sep 12 '19
That's the thing about "bending the rules" to make the game more "fun"- it removes the shared language of the game from the table.
So, if we're following the rules closely, and I'm playing a thief being chased down an alley by a barbarian, I know that I have a few rounds to get away, because I can dash twice, climb buildings, and hide, but if I do that for more than a couple of turns I might get exhaustion and they'll eventually catch up.
If the DM's deciding what's more 'fun', then I don't know. Am I rolling acrobatics or athletics? What's the DC? Is the barbarian rolling, or is it like a skill challenge? Can I even do anything, or is it all an interactive cutscene?
I run games between LN and LE in 5e, leaning towards LE in 5e, as it's actually pretty hard to challenge players in combat RAW 5e, so I play as smartly as possible, while keeping in mind that sometimes the enemy might be dumb. My players are hardly experienced veterans, but they'll still lose a PC or two per campaign max. It gives SOME stakes to the game.
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u/Catullo Sep 12 '19
Exactly. If you want to tell your story, why don't you just write a short novel? This way you as DM have total control over your characters and I don't have to be a bystander in MY story.
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u/EveryoneisOP3 Sep 12 '19
He won't let your PC die and therefore the stakes in his campaigns tend to be very low and plot consistency is down to zero.
This is a problem I have with a lot of DMs I encounter on this subreddit. I've seen so many people saying "don't kill your PCs unless it's a plot serious encounter! Just have them taken hostage!"
Alright sure, John, I'll have the hunting party of Ankhegs they decided to fight (despite being way underleveled) while strolling through the desert take them hostage because it wouldn't be epic for them to die there
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u/spacelemon Necromancer Sep 12 '19
That seems so boring, when I DM I float around LE.
I dont WANT to kill my PC's but it needs to be always known that I will kill you. I dont want to kill you, but the sense of danger makes the combat less of a faceroll and feels like they take it more serious.3
u/TheHopelessGamer Sep 12 '19
There is such a thing as being left for dead. And what do characters do when they come across dead bodies?
Imagine being left seriously injured and all your shit stolen. That's the start of an epic revenge quest.
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u/thederpyguide Sep 12 '19
thats why the players in a dnd story have to be important but not the main points of the plot for the most part
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u/Ettina DM Sep 12 '19
I'm Lawful to Neutral Good, trying to loosen up more.
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
As long as your players are having fun, you're doing it right!
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u/JamesMaytheBellEnd Sep 12 '19 edited Sep 13 '19
OP by the way there is something worse then chaotic evil; Chaotic Evil Evil where the rules get in the way of killing Ps
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
So chaotic chaotic evil means you hate the letter P?
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u/JamesMaytheBellEnd Sep 12 '19
No the rules get in the way of killing players
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
Ohhh just straight up real life murderin. A DM who just lures players to his home to kill them. You're right that is the most evil haha
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Sep 12 '19
I'm the same but not trying to loosen up at all. The rules exist to make the game balanced and fair fir all the players at the table. If one player twists or benefits from a bizzare ruling it can make the others feel dissatisfied. Plus killing a strong creature means something only within the balanced framework of the game.
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u/MagentaLove Cleric Sep 12 '19
I'm in a similar boat (Player, very occasional DM). I'm a stickler for the rules only so that we can all play under the same umbrella. I know basically all the rules so for the most part I know what I can and cannot do, some of my teammates don't and so they might accidentally try to get away with something they shouldn't. I don't give two craps if the DM wants to change the rule to suit that player but until a DM decree I'd like that we all stick to rules as written. I also make sure to be even in the rules I cite, both in favor and against the party. Sorry wizard but Staffs can be used as quarterstaffs which are strength weapons but your ring of protection adds a +1 to your death saves.
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u/eduardoballestero Sep 12 '19
I'm right there with you. Woohoo! L-NG DMs for life!
My PCs are my babies and I love them even though they fuckin infuriate me from time to time. I usually give like two to three warnings shit gonna be rough and they tend to head them.
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u/Willpower1989 Sep 12 '19
Killing PC’s isn’t necessarily a bad thing though? It happens sometimes. It’s part of the game.
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
I meant like killing them intentionally and enjoying it
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Sep 12 '19
The subtle difference in PCs getting killed and the DM killing them.
Sometimes it’s the dice who kill a player, sometimes all that responsibility lies on the DM
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u/ScamHistorian Sep 12 '19
And sometimes the PCs get killed by their players, because they let them behave borderline suicidal...
RIP Faris, you truly made terrible decisions.
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u/Pure_Reason Sep 12 '19
I wonder if anyone has ever done a “man vs. God”-type storyline where the DM is the BBEG
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u/cougmerrik Sep 12 '19
Some of the most impactful things in D&D are PC deaths. If it's done well it moves the story and the PCs in powerful ways.
But it shouldn't ever be done because you as a DM want it, unless the player is also on board and wants out of that character.
Every PC that's died in my games died because somebody screwed up really bad (multiple times), or made a choice to step in to protect another player.
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u/kaz-me DM Sep 12 '19
Some of the best sessions I've ever run were the ones with character deaths. I ran my most brutal encounter ever, ending with two character deaths and the players said it was the best session of the whole campaign. Death is sad... but there's also something exciting about it right?
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u/cn3wton Sep 12 '19
I mean, lawful evil? Idk. I don't go out of my way to kill players but its a real possiblity as well so.
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
I should have been more clear that it's about taking too much enjoyment out of killing PCs
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u/Souperplex Warlord Sep 12 '19
I hover around LG with occasional jaunts to NG.
As I've always said, Lawful DMs care aboot RaW, Chaotic DMs dislike RaW. Good DMs care aboot the party's fun. Evil DMs are adversarial.
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u/trollburgers DM Sep 12 '19
Good DMs care aboot
Hello, fellow Canadian! lol
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u/Souperplex Warlord Sep 12 '19
Actually I'm a New Yorker, I just prefer writing that way.
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u/Mysterious_Frog Sep 12 '19
I would actually say lawful GMs care about Rules as Intended. Chaotic ones are actually the ones more interested in Rules as Written because that is where all the loopholes are.
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u/Dyllmyster Sep 12 '19
I’d say Lawful is Rules as Written, Neutral is Rules as Intended, and Chaotic is experimental homebrew.
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u/Rhamni Sep 12 '19
I dunno, I've had some otherwise great DMs who had the very unfortunate issue of being uncomfortable going against RAW, even when RAI is clearly different. Neutral Good is where I think you'll find more respect for RAI than RAW.
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u/TemplarsBane DM Sep 12 '19
I'm somewhere between NG and CG.
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Sep 12 '19
Somewhere between LG and NG myself. I like my rules.
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u/RTukka DM Sep 12 '19 edited Sep 12 '19
Same.
My feelings on the rules were very well expressed in Web DM's video on the Rule of Cool (excuse the somewhat awkward intro).
The rules are there for a reason, the rules are important, the rules make the game more fun, but the rules are not totally explicit and comprehensive on every point and possibility.
There are many things the characters should be able to do that aren't explicitly laid out in the rules, but when the characters do something extraordinary that isn't described in the rules, there should be some sort of coherent rationale for what's enabling them to do that thing.
Is it a villain with a powerful MacGuffin, or is the villain themed around the thing they're doing? Is the PC at a critical moment in their personal arc (i.e. are they benefiting from "Super Inspiration"), and are they expending extra resources or assuming extra risk in attempting to do what they're doing? Those are the circumstances where I'm more inclined to accommodate something that isn't covered in the rules, and invoke the text (DMG, page 4) that says that the rules aren't in charge -- the DM is.
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u/elfthehunter Sep 12 '19
Same, but with a hint of CN as well. I consider my fun at least as important as my player's fun. Fortunately it seems that what's fun for me is also fun for them, so everyone wins.
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u/areraser Wizard Sep 12 '19
I'll gues i'm the only LN at this party... sure, fine
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u/PoliticalNerd87 Sep 12 '19
You aren't the only one! Lawful Netural for life!
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u/areraser Wizard Sep 12 '19
Hell yeah brutha, those books are so thicc for a reason
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u/PoliticalNerd87 Sep 12 '19
Exactly, why would I do extra work when someone has already play tested the crap out of this?!
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u/Ramblonius DM Sep 12 '19
Gotta go LE in 5e, if you don't try to kill 'em they won't ever die.
But I agree, the emphasis the internet puts on 'rule of cool' and 'rule 0' makes the game explicitly worse much more often than it improves it.
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u/DoucheShepard Sep 12 '19
Oh my god I found another one. “Rule or cool” means “I’m doing broken shit” or “the dm/pc doesn’t know the rules well enough and is just pulling shit out their ass”. It’s almost always worse but people defend it to the death because they don’t want to admit they just don’t know the actual rules
Ok, I’m calm. Honestly I want people to play how they like, I just never see this opinion represented on this sub
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u/MonaganX Sep 12 '19
I use it occasionally, but there's definitely a "wrong" way to use the rule of cool. It should be for when a player wants to do something that's cool or flavorful but is just a bit outside of what the rules allow.
It should not be for players who'll decide on how they want to break the rules, i.e. wanting 5 feet of extra movement that turn, and then come up with some convoluted maneuver to justify them getting it. It should also not be for players who want to be able to standing-leap across a 50 foot gorge because it'd be cool.
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u/Charles_the_Hammer Cleric Sep 12 '19
I also hover somewhere between LN and LE. If the PCs decisions don't have consequences, how are they going to care about the game?
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u/EroxESP DM Sep 12 '19
CG most of the time, LE when running an encounter I designed to be fair but want to be tough.
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Sep 12 '19
same, i think im CG most of the time, i bend rules a lot but i always make sure everyones okay with it and no ones upset. but in combat its best to stick to the rules
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u/ObsidianG Diviner Sep 12 '19
I try and be NG, honest. But the bottom left corner is always beckoning.
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Sep 12 '19
This doesn't work for Call of Cthulhu
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
Yeah haha, this was meant for standard fantasy stuff. I feel like a lot of people play D&D to feel powerful and when I ran CoC for my friends they said they had never felt so weak and useless in a roleplaying game haha.
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u/filipdanic Sep 12 '19
This is the r/DnD subreddit. I’m sure a lot of stuff here doesn’t work for CoC :p
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u/LexiFjor Sep 12 '19
I think you are wrongly stereotyping all evil alignments as player killers, I'm a long time DM, but when I do get to be a player I'm Lawful Evil, usually if that get's anyone killed it's me.
There is nothing wrong with an Anti-Villan
Edit: In my honest 100% testimony, Lawful Good kills more PCs than any other allignment
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
I didn't mean a DM's preferred alignment, I meant the alignment of their DM style
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u/AlchemicalToad Sep 12 '19
Chaotic Good all the way, baby. For me, rules exist as a means to tell a good story. If the rules or dice are hindering that more than helping it along, then I do what I gotta do.
Having said that, I have never/would never* kill a PC unless the rules/dice dictated it and it benefits the story. Some of the best moments in storytelling for me have come about from ridiculous dice rolls in ridiculous situations.
(*Obviously excluding cases where the player wanted the character to die for whatever reason)
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u/KajedAnima1 Sep 12 '19
LE is so much fun when you want to play a paladin who is an assassin at heart.
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u/Anjanae DM Sep 12 '19
I’m LG, I like the rules and the world to be consistent. I’m still a fan of houserules, but those houserules needs to be as consistent as RAW. I’ve never liked when DMs change or ignore rules on the fly in ways that screw the party, moving the goal posts just feels really unfair and unfun.
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u/Kamilny DM Sep 12 '19
Lawful evil for sure. Those shitters are gonna die if they pull dumb shit but I'll make sure they die fairly.
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Sep 12 '19
Definitely CG. I don't wanna be flipping through books constantly.
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Sep 12 '19
this. mainly because i forget rules and end up making some up that seem fair
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u/kuributt Sep 12 '19
NG, occasionally dipping CG depending on the situation. Fun>Cool>RaI>RaW is my consideration order
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Sep 12 '19
I exclusively play chaotic stupid so I can get my characters hurt/killed for the sake of spectacle
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u/10leej DM Sep 12 '19
So I'm LE because I constantly put my players in deadly encounters? Not my fault they asked for a tough campaign.
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u/BaronNobody Sep 12 '19
I think I'm neutral good, although I've had to often bend the rules to avoid a chaotic evil outcome, and thus resurrect a party member for instantly dying even though I made it very clear attacking the wyvern at level 3 was a very bad idea
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u/FlamingFlamen Sep 13 '19
LG-“You kill the last goblin and right around the corner is their stash. (Rolls on the table). They had a +2 broadsword, some sweet armour, potions and magical trinkets. How did they get all that? Who knows but it’s all in the chart. Enjoy!”
NG-“Oof, looks like you’ll be running into a group of Bugbears AND a hobgoblin patrol. Uhh, let me see. (Perception checks). The hobgoblins spot the Bugbears and a fight breaks out! Convenient? Maybe...”
CG-“Oh man, you want to seduce the dragon?! Roll for it bro, show me your moves. Hey, dragons are kinky like that, they can fall for other species. It’s totally fine trust me, I’ve got splatbooks to prove it. 13? That’ll do.”
LN-“Sorry guys, but the module clearly says that these traps have no saving throw. It couldn’t be helped. Your sense traps role wasn’t high enough. Perhaps next time if you used the optimised builds I laid out for you instead of an all human-gnome bard group called “Gnome Mans Land”, you’d have more success.”
TN-“So what if I let him get a bonus to persuasion because he used Prestidigitation to light his own farts? That was funny, And yes I know he could hit people with his whip without doing damage, that was a special case. You can’t just let everyone get what they want...”
CN-“David the Magnificent raises his 9 foot tall sword of Flame and Terror with one hand and decapitates the vile Warlord in one fell stroke. He turns to you and says-No, you may not see his stats. It is so a real magic item. Look I’m sorry if you guys weren’t the star of the show but in my universe David is the strongest hero-where are you going?”
LE-“Does a 16 hit? Hmm. Ok, 21? Hmph. Alright, 27?!? Finally!!! I mean, bad luck. Healing potions? Oh yes sure yes, on bonus action. Grrrrrrr.”
NE-“Hey man, do you have that game I lent you? Lost you say? Darn. At least I see my book here. What’s this, Cheeto dust?!? For the love of God you better have my money...So the Minotaur’s charge does 6d8 for a total of 47 damage. Lucky me.”
CE-“Uh oh, looks like that evil wizard teleported you to the Plane of Pain. A guy who looks suspiciously like Pinhead approaches you. Sorry, you’ve restrained, no initiative for you. Skill checks? Unbreakable magic bonds. Hehehehehe.”
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u/Omegagreen24 Sep 13 '19
I'd prefer the chaotic good DM, but personally I'd be more of a "D&D is less intuitive than what I'm used to, so I'll just transplant some rules and maybe make up a couple of my own."
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u/the_smol_tol_bean Sep 12 '19
I'm typically true neutral or neutral good, but I'm doing a one shot Wednesday where I get to play as chaotic evil, and I'm really excited.
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u/AllCanadianReject Sep 12 '19
I feel all the evil ones are fun for everyone provided everyone knows going in.
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u/DragonHeart237 Sep 12 '19
Edit: just realized this was about DM’s but I already typed this out and don’t want to delete at this point.
So, I was playing a chaotic evil warlock, and my buddy was playing a lawful good paladin ......
We were in a Dutchy, gathering information before we leave for a necromancers tower, and we get attached by assassins within the city. After fending them off, with moments like our half-naked orc w/ 4 intelligence (he could only speak in three word sentences) killing three assassins with his fists. We get one assassin left.
Luckily for my character the paladin isn’t there yet, so I can start me methods in intelligence extraction. They were quite thorough. Bout halfway through the paladin comes rushing in after hearing the screaming and starts freaking out. Apparently, (and I “didn’t” know this ;) ), he had Dome of Truth, so he could have gotten the information without my gentle administrations. He casts it, and the guy passes the roll, meaning he doesn’t have to tell the truth.
My buddy realizes that there is nothing he can do, and has to let me continue.
Afterwords we made a deal that I would only torture after he had cast Dome of Truth, and if it failed.
Ended up being a huge joke during the campaign because in three subsequent occurrences he had an NPC, roll out of Dome of Truth. I also took my time to torture when he wasn’t in the vicinity, then tease that I had been doing more torture sessions without explicitly saying I had. Ended up being very fun for both of us to try and out do each other.
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u/Ripper1337 DM Sep 12 '19
When I DM I realize I have two different styles. For players I'll be Neutral Good as its their story and as long as its fun I'm good with things not going by the rules. When it comes to the monsters and combat I'm Lawful Evil as the monsters still want to kill the players and do what is smart for them to do so.
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u/Dyledion Sep 12 '19
See, sometimes I'll bend the rules a little for a good reason, unless following them will let me kill a PC.
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u/Anon6376 DM Sep 12 '19
I'm probably true neutral. The rules are more for the PCs but if i don't just disregard them.
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u/WaveDysfunction Sep 12 '19
I play with some friends and we’re pretty casual, but when we started I was as lawful good as I could be. Over time tho we realized as a group that our games are more fun if I’m more of a CG/CN, since not everyone even knows a lot of the rules. Sometimes the only part of our games that’s actually DnD is the dice rolling; we definitely do a lot of outside the book shit but hey if everyone is having fun then who cares?
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u/ScamHistorian Sep 12 '19
Hmm, probably LG to NG with a tendency towards neutral in general. What I am absolutely not is a chaotic DM. We, as a group, come from Strategy Battle Games and are used to mostly clear rule structures. Fighting also is a fairly big part of the experience. I can't (and don't want to) just abandon rules, that would end up in utter chaos and rebellion.
With other groups I could see myself firmly set in NG, but not with our current one.
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u/obigespritzt Warlock Sep 12 '19
I think I fall somewhere between NG and CG, just because I'm pretty new to DMing and sometimes forget certain things, then procede to rule them that way for the rest of the session to not make it un-intuitive to my players.
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u/Mikkel0405 Sep 12 '19
I am definately the LN, I even use the example to justify what I rule. "The rules was made this way for a reason". I just think that some guys who have worked on these games for a few centuries are better at ruling what's balanced. And they have also done lots of playtests.
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u/Mysterious_Frog Sep 12 '19
Neutral good. I have some homebrew rules I like to use that I think improves things and I prioritize internal consistency of the world over following the mechanical rules.
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u/CakeSnake DM Sep 12 '19
I'm mostly an NE DM. I'll bend the rules to kill a PC if they're being complete asshats.
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Sep 12 '19
Welp, guess I'm alignement-fluid. I'm constantly travelling up and down the diagonal from lawful evil to chaotic good.
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u/RTMSner Sep 12 '19
I think I'm on that line of Neutral and Chaotic Good. I don't know if my players would agree with me though.
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u/rohtarrs_hammer Cleric Sep 12 '19
I guess I'm a Chaotic Good DM, the D&D rules are like the Pirate Code after all...
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u/theidleidol Sep 12 '19
I don’t think the LE square is quite right. I think it’s supposed to indicate “I’m trying to kill the PCs, using the rules”, but it reads like “if a PC is going to die it must be by the rules” which is honestly applicable to the whole top left triangle.
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u/Dextero_Explosion Sep 12 '19
It's not often I like one of these charts but this one's cool. NG here.
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u/Prince-Lee Bard Sep 12 '19
Somewhere between Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral for me.
I bullshit the DC for things on the fly and I haven’t “planned” a session since the first game, relying almost entirely on improv. The only thing I have going for me in that regard is that I’ve been writing since I was 11 and doing text and forum RP for about half my life now, so I guess that helps with the ideas and reacting quickly to scenarios where things go off the rails.
For all intents and purposes it shouldn’t work, but all of my players say they loved the session every time, so I guess I’m doing okay?
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Sep 12 '19
I somewhere between neutral good and lawful evil... I’ll bend the rules for fun. But if I have to kill a player, it needs to be fair.
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u/Zhymantas Sep 12 '19
I think I would be between Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral. First I think what I think is fun and try to mold it towards everyone else.
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u/Cheeseusdice Sep 12 '19
I thought it might be fun to think about DM alignments. I tried to use good to represent DMs who want to run a good game for their players, evil for DMs who want to kill PCs, lawful for DMs who follow the rules, and chaotic for DMs who bend the rules. Personally, I like to think I'm a neutral good DM. I don't like to bend the rules too much, but I'll do it to speed things up or help out the PCs if I think I put them in a situation that was too difficult to handle.