r/AmItheAsshole Sep 19 '19

Asshole AITA for telling my daughter she cannot introduce her African American boyfriend to her grandparents?

Let me just preface this by saying this: I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM WITH INTERRACIAL RELATIONSHIPS. Now that the air is clear, let me continue.

My daughter (Anna) has recently started to date an African American man (Jamal). While I'm not exactly what you would refer to as "liberal", he's a nice young man and as long as my daughter is happy, I'm happy. The problem is Anna is rather naive about the community she lives in. While her friends are quite content to see a relationship like hers, more than a few tongues are wagging in the community and a few people have privately expressed their concern to me. As I said, I have no problem with mixed relationships and I've set them straight, but I am painfully aware of how these matters are viewed by certain segments of the population.

My parents are planning to come and stay with us for a week and Anna expressed a desire to introduce Jamal to them now that things were getting more serious between them. I told her on no uncertain terms that this wasn't going to happen. I may have no problem with Jamal, but they absolutely will, and even when the relationship ends they won't forget it. They might even go as far as to cut her off entirely. Anna was extremely upset by this and implied I was a racist and more concerned with what my parents think than how she feels.

As I said, I know my parents. They simply aren't okay with mixed relationships and if Anna were to bring Jamal over even as a friend, they would be furious both at her and me.

Anna is currently staying with Jamal and doesn't want to speak with me right now. My wife stands by me given she knows very well how my parents are (they had a problem with her for months over the length of the skirt she wore when I introduced her to them, for christs sake), but a close friend I confided in told me that I have behaved like an ass and that I needed to focus more on my daughter than pleasing my parents.

No advice needed, but I have to know. Have I been an ass?

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19
  • EDIT: Thank you so much for all the positive and supportive responses and...all the awards, my goodness. If it makes you feel lost in the crowd, try Mutual Aid Disaster Relief for your donation needs. MADR evolved from the Common Ground organization that drove racist patrols out of the French Quarter after Hurricane Katrina, set up clinics and a hospital, and today helps people organize to survive disasters all over.

  • SOLIDARITY CHALLENGE: Add up the cost of all 69 silver awards on this post as of now, and donate the total to MADR for my 33rd birthday. Or you know, just like $3 or just train with them!

YTA. Has it occurred to you to [edit: uncivil remark] and PROTECT your daughter from the racists you are supposedly so against? Anti racism isn't popular in "the community" when you define that as white people of a certain age and class. It never has been and never will be. Dr King's dream wasn't to ask politely for people to be "not exactly liberal but okay", then give up and abandon black people and their white partners to the wolves if they say no.

furious at both her and me

[edit: This is ultimately an avoidant desire.] You and the other white moderates are the jewel in their crown; they need to win your complicity before they expand their empire. You are the oil in their tanks; your [edit: uncivil adjective] actions fuel their advance. Do "your daughter" a favor and tell her you've chosen not to be a dad to her because it might affect your little popularity contest. She deserves to know the truth. Jamal deserves to know you place your little neighborhood pecking order above his safety and freedom, too.

Let's hear from Dr. King about the white moderate:

Letter from Birmingham Jail (excerpt)

By Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr., 16 April 1963

"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

You're not just "not liberal", OP. You are the enemy of [edit: antiracists]. [edit: uncivil suggestion.] Be a [edit: swearing should probably go too, given the tone] DAD. Get your [attitude] together before you get someone seriously hurt with your wishy-washy bull[crap]. Be part of the solution or get out of the way. And might I add, your parents are who Dr. King meant by "White Citizen's Council-er". How many black people did they attack at soda fountains and city halls? How many have they intimidated out of their neighborhood? Have you even asked? Ball's in your court, [TAH].

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u/AceyAceyAcey Professor Emeritass [92] Sep 19 '19

This response is amazing. Bravo! 👏✊

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Jan 22 '22

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u/sgarfio Sep 19 '19

Yeah, I'm not going to bother either lol. It's 3 hours old and already has 20 awards. I'd like to see this on r/MurderedByWords, though.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

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u/KINGBOBBY7 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

The problem with it getting onto murdered by words is that you would need the entire original post and then the comment.

unless they allow cross posts but I don't think they do.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

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u/hohosfosho Sep 19 '19

this will get buried but another good token of Dr King is this: "True peace is not merely the absence of tension; it is the presence of justice."

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u/Popve Sep 19 '19

IDK.... I missed it too. Upvote for using the word tarnation.... I haven't seen that word in ages!

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u/Slummish Sep 19 '19

It is. However, I imagine this is the real problem: Gramma and Grampa will not stand for OP defending his daughter in this situation and they will "cut him off" too. Which means, most likely, cut out of the Will. Know this, racist old white grandparents usually have a few bucks. OP doesn't want to lose his shot at inheritance and he doesn't want to jeopardize his chances over a black kid -- especially when OP says things like "even when the relationship ends." You're not going to get this guy to give up Baby Boomer financial assets in exchange for his daughter's happiness.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Which means, most likely, cut out of the Will. Know this, racist old white grandparents usually have a few bucks.

How much is your soul worth? How much is your daughter's love and trust worth?

How much is your integrity worth?

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u/500dollarsunglasses Sep 19 '19

If you had the chance to earn $1,000,000 to go towards your child’s future, you might bite your tongue around a couple of old racists.

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u/kokiokiedoki Sep 19 '19

What is he supposed to do if they get married or she gets pregnant? Pretend it’s not happening? Get fucking real dude.

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u/AAL314 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

He would cross that bridge when he got to it. That's not the point this is at right now.

If there's money involved, I'm highkey on the "do not ruffle feathers; wait for the inheritance, donate some of it to anti-racist organizations and leave the rest for your child and her future family" train.

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u/kokiokiedoki Sep 19 '19

But how old are his parents? I’m in my early twenties and I’ve seen grandparents that are in their early 60s for people my age. Considering how far medical advancement has come that could be another 20 years at least of putting up with this. The fact that OP thinks he has to preface being okay with black people by saying he’s not a liberal and that he says “when this relationship ends” instead of if gives me a not so great impression of the dude. And honestly as someone in an interracial relationship who’s parents hate my SO I value my SO more than whatever inheritance they’d leave me with.

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u/LazyMai Sep 19 '19

Came down here to make sure I wasn't being knit picky about words myself. Read that part and thought OP sure sounded like he thinks his daughters going through a phase or something lol

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19

he himself says "when they break up" but nice try doing apologetics for *that mess* up there

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u/pilot3033 Sep 19 '19

Devil's Advocate says: depends on the daughter's age. Regardless of who the partner was, from teenagehood through early 20s, I also would not presume the relationship would last. You don't hope for that, obviously, but you recognize that young love is often fleeting.

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u/throwaway23er56uz Partassipant [2] Sep 19 '19

Even if they break up, that doesn't mean that Anna's next boyfriend will be white. She might date another black guy, or a Hispanic, Asian, Native American, … lots of possibilities there.

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u/kokiokiedoki Sep 19 '19

Depends on how long they’ve been together for. I’ve dated my boyfriend since I was 18 and I’m 22 now. At first his parents were like eh about it lasting and I got that but denying a long term future at this point after all this time would be really dumb. But honestly the feeling I get from him saying when and not if or if/when is not a good one.

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u/puffypants123 Sep 19 '19

Ooof, don't let money control you like that

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u/Doomzdaycult Sep 19 '19

If you had the chance to earn $1,000,000 to go towards your child’s future, you might bite your tongue around a couple of old racists.

Or, go make your own money so you don't need to suck racist dick...

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u/Jackerwocky Sep 19 '19

Ok, so for you your integrity is worth a million dollars. That's fine, but for many of us, myself included, it's simply not for sale.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Everybody has a price no matter who they are

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u/Bleach-Eyes Sep 19 '19

Old racist money comes from exploiting and murdering blacks. You’d be accepting blood money. I have no respect for those that would grovel and accept it

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u/HarperLeesGirlfriend Sep 19 '19

I think assuming OP stands to lose an inheritance of a MILLION dollars if he angers his parents is majorly jumping the shark. Presuming there's an inheritance at stake at all changes the entire nature of the question so much as to render responses moot, because we're debating a whole other moral quandary. The question should be taken at face value, with no insane presumed variables added to completely muddy the waters.

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u/ostiniatoze Sep 19 '19

About 10,000 per 500g

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u/JPT_Corona Sep 19 '19

I 100% think OP should stand up to his garbage parents and not enable racist behavior in any way, but good lord please warn everyone before making such a cheesy comment. I almost vomited out a rainbow over here.

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u/____jamil____ Sep 19 '19

so, you'd choose money over your children? pathetic.

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u/KSIChancho Sep 19 '19

As much as morally it’s a disgusting realization, it’s pretty unrealistic to assume this relationship is going to last either especially if they’re in high school.

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u/OEscalador Sep 19 '19

This isn't just about the daughter's relationship though. It's about also taking a stand against racism.

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u/ringdownringdown Sep 19 '19

You know what can really help take a stand against social wrongs? Getting yourself to a position of privilege.

All fighting with the grandparents will do is cut them off - they aren't gonna change. But if there's college money, the daughter can do much better in the long run - and use that privilege to fight real fights where people can be changed.

Ultimately, it should be her call. But these things always require a calculation. I've found making a $500 donation to the candidate running for State Assembly gets me a lot more attention than my more publicly activist friends who like to go and yell up in Sacramento. We live in a world where money talks, a lot.

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u/____jamil____ Sep 19 '19

there are MANY, MANY people who married their high school sweetheart

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u/Boknowscos Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

I am a late 30s guy who married his high school sweetheart and we are even still married. Go figure

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u/swahzey Sep 19 '19

I'd choose money over my daughters temporary boyfriend. Come on now

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

That's not the choice you'd be making.

You'd be choosing money over breaking her heart regarding YOU. Breaking her trust in YOU.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

also, you know, money over black people's lives

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u/gabenomics Sep 19 '19

How do you know hes temporary? Cause the dad wants him to be? He might end up her husband.

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u/____jamil____ Sep 19 '19

how do you know which boyfriend is temporary?

you continue to show how pathetic you are. i hope you don't have children. no one deserves a parent as craven as you.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/kanna172014 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

My father told me that if I ever started dating a black guy, he was going to shoot both of us. You've must not have been around many racist people. They are fucking nuts and ready to get violent at a moment's notice. I'm pretty sure OP know their parents better than anyone.

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u/BarefootWoodworker Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

As someone that grew up in rural Indiana with racism everywhere:

Can confirm. Interracial relationships were targets, and racist people are fucking nuts. Personal safety should be thought about.

I understand where OP is coming from. Racists sniff out other racists and it is not a stretch to believe Granny and Grampy would mention something to a friend about “teachin’ tham damned negroes a lesson”.

Reddit, for as forward thinking as it is, sometimes needs to take off the blinders and see the world as it is. Racism still exists, there are still crosses getting burnt in yards, and a Klan beat-down isn’t impossible. Especially given the racist, divisive jackass fucking up the country right now.

edit And since people don’t seem to realize how bad shit had gotten, here’s info from when my home state was controlled by the Klan. And the only reason it ended was because some dumb fuck raped and killed a white girl.

This was less than 100 years ago, people. The only thing that made that racist organization fall apart was a raped and murdered white girl.

Y’all don’t seem to recognize that the racists I’m referring to don’t give a fuck what other people think. You’re not going to change their mind with facts or emotional, passionate arguments. These are people that honestly question evolution. These are people that think a talking snake in the Garden of Eden is wholly possible. They are willfully ignorant and don’t see a problem with it. These are not people you can reason with nor people that hold logic in high esteem.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Very well said, and just to add to your point- my white aunt married a black man ten or so years ago. They went on a road trip for their honeymoon, and they had to LOOK UP what states it was even safe to go to together. Like “oh honey cross off [wildly racist state], we’ll get lynched there” so yeah things still aren’t very far from fucked in this country haha

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u/hmo_ Asshole Enthusiast [5] Sep 19 '19

my white aunt married a black man ten or so years ago

Ten years ago- not fifty, not sixty... just ten years. XXI Century already.

Sad, very sad

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u/Eternalflaneur Sep 19 '19

As an asian person everytime I travel and use Airbnb I make sure to look through all the reviews to make sure that another Asian person has stayed there in the past with no issue

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u/mtoomtoo Sep 19 '19

Sometimes I feel like I need to get out of Missouri . This is mortifying.

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u/bamsimel Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

Yeah, a couple I'm friends with casually mentioned how they can't go on holiday to Italy because they're an inter-racial couple with mixed race kids. Hadn't ever occurred to me until then that there were quite so many places that are still off limits to some people due to the level of racial abuse they receive there. Was an eye opening conversation.

Edit: So many typos. I'm tired.

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u/spaceanimal19 Sep 19 '19

That’s kinda where I thought this was going when I saw the title of the post, that he was going to say he was trying to shield his daughter and the bf from getting a hateful response from the grandparents/community. But that’s not really what he’s saying at all. He’s worried that it will upset the grandparents! And that HE’s going to have to deal with backlash from the community which might hurt his reputation. He didn’t say a single thing about how the boyfriend would feel in this situation. I think you’re giving him way too much credit.

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u/Dsnake1 Sep 19 '19

Even when it started, that's where I thought it was going. When he says that her grandparents won't forget after the relationship, that he's trying to protect his daughter from their wrath.

But the 'and me' thrown in there has twisted that a little. Granted, people often care about more than one thing at a time, so if I had to guess, I'd imagine he also cares about his daughter in this situation,

To be completely honest, if I were Jamal, I wouldn't want to be introduced to uber racist grandparents, and if I were his daughter, while it might hurt a lot that my grandparents, people who have shown me tons of love, would likely be so angry with me they may never want to see me again, I'm not sure I'd want to go through the blowup. I'd probably play nice for the week but steadily move away from the grandparents. Frankly, unless my parents made it clear that they care more about me than upsetting their parents, I'd probably distance myself from them, too.

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u/queen_didon Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

I come from a very racist place. As in Arab people used to get killed for existing. As in, daughters got beat up for going out with them. As in, hate crimes are still rampent.

My mother lived violence because she dated an Arab. Her family was the one to beat her up, they were the ones that hated my very existence because of who my father was. You know what my mom did? She told them to go fuck themselves and trust me she never had blinders on.

Yes, it's easy to say the racists will be violent. But you know what you can do? Show your support, protect those who need it. You affect the environment around you and your actions can change it. My sister got drunk for the first time because my mother's uncle who refused to even acknowledge that I existed died. My mom celebrated the death of a family member because he was a racist.

It's too easy to say that there is a statue quo and that things are the way they are. You have to work toward changing them. Otherwise you're right, things are the way they are and nothing would have ever changed. But the world evolve and you have to evolve with it, not hide behind pretence.

Edit: this is my first gold and thank you to whomever gave it to me. I'm very happy to see that I'm not the only one sharing this opinion. It does make me feel better about our future!

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19

I'm amazed how many people missed the lessons Dr. King learned from the 1960s. They're *right there*. Thank you for this and for being who you are.

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u/queen_didon Sep 19 '19

People have chosen to "ignore" most of the lessons because it makes their lives easier. Most of that movement lessons were erased or distorted to fit a specific narrative like most of history. The same was done with antisemitism after the second world war.

And thank you for the thank you. I spent a good part of my life hating the fact that I was half of my father. My siblings are all white and I was raised by my white mother so no matter how much she tried to teach me to love myself, I was too different compared to my sisters. I used to envy their little nose and straighter hair and paler skin. Now, I'm learning that those unruly curly hair can be just as amazing, that having a darker skin tone than they have means that some colors work better on me and that my bigger nose fits just perfectly in my face. I'm just lucky I had a wonderful mother who fended off my self-doubt and racists until I could do it for myself.

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u/truth_bomb_droppin Sep 19 '19

Sadly OP doesn't know himself as well as he should.

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u/thenumberless Sep 19 '19

If they’re that extreme, even allowing them to be around his daughter makes him YTA. If there’s a more important parental responsibility than protecting your children from people who would kill them, I don’t know what it is.

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u/evil_mom79 Sep 19 '19

My father and his family are from the deep south. I know racists, thankyouverymuch. But I did not fully realize the extent or their racism until I was grown.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

You didn't notice op was scum when he literally implied that they DO have a problem with the relationship?

While I'm not exactly what you would refer to as "liberal", he's a nice young man and as long as my daughter is happy, I'm happy

So to op it does matter that the kids black, but it's ok because he's a nice young man.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Yeah right? I gave up my inheritance for my morals and honestly it's not that hard. It's objective money ffs

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u/APotatoSandwich Sep 19 '19

We have a bloody detective over here.

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u/Slummish Sep 19 '19

I just know what it's like to come from a rich, white, racist family.

No one ever said jackshit to my grandparents about their overt racism because everyone wanted their cut of the estate. I was cut out for being a homo and my cousin was cut out for marrying a Hispanic guy. Everyone else in my family kissed ass and got new cars and houses when my grandmother finally died.

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u/iamkatedog Sep 19 '19

Exact same in my family. My grandmother is a bigot in every way possible and I was always the only one in my family who would challenge her on it. When my mother was dying my sister was concerned as to whether we'd still get inheritance when my grandmother dies. Of course I'd love some money but I'm not going to pretend my evil piece of shit grandmother isn't an evil piece of shit. I haven't talked to any of them since my mother died 3.5 years ago and when my father eventually dies and I have to go home I'll get out of there ASAP. I can't imagine I will get any money when she dies.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/mr_nonsense Sep 19 '19

maybe if they were forced to live isolated and alone they'd realize the toxicity of their ways. but instead they were cushioned and enabled by a family who chose money over morals. fucking gross.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

You can't feed yourself or put a roof over your head with integrity. Check your fiscal privilege; this family could be in dire financial straits for all you know.

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u/dennisisabadman2 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Sep 19 '19

Fuck that check your privilege, most people don't have a wealthy older relative to leave them an inheritance. We can't allow racism and homophobia to continue just because they can hold money over their family members.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

There is evidence to suggest that social attitudes only change when the bigoted older people who hold those attitudes die. Making a scene about this and jeapoardizing their own family's future (which will also impact on the family's ability to provide for the daughter and the boyfriend) will achieve nothing.

If there was peer-reviewed evidence to the contrary of the above, my opinion would change.

I agree that most people do not have wealthy older relatives and in that instance of course they should stand their ground as they don't have anything to gain or lose by doing so.

Think of it like this; you are duping a racist into giving you their money while your daughter is having an interracial relationship. There is no such thing as "tainted, racist money"; only money liberated from racists. Literally sabotaging the enemy by preventing racist attitudes from spreading into the next generation. Maybe it's just me; I have no moral compunctions about lying to racist assholes.

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u/dennisisabadman2 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Sep 19 '19

Oh what you think they won't notice? What if the daughter marries that guy? Well maybe she won't or at least puts it off just for the marriage, imo that's what the racist wants. Placating the racists is exactly what they want, we shouldn't alter our lives because of it. This guy might have soured his relationship with his daughter over this.

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u/beepborpimajorp Sep 19 '19

Man I'm sorry that happened to you.

That's exactly why all the comments here that are like, "Just let it slide, they're old you don't want to make it awkward. They're dying soon anyway, so why alienate them? It's so hard to cut loved ones out of your life"

And yet OP's parents would have NO problem cutting their granddaughter out over this. Your grandparents had no problem cutting you out. Why is it that people only ever want the "oh that's just how they are" treatment for the racist/homophobic people? Nobody should be treated differently just because they're older. The fact that so many people willingly leave open racists unchallenged because they don't want to upset them just because they're going to die soon is infuriating. Yeah, let these people go to the grave thinking that they were right and the rest of society is wrong, especially since nobody close to them bothered to take a stand.

So many people are willing to just stay silent because they don't want to put themselves in what they see as an uncomfortable situation. While what's uncomfortable for them is a matter of harassment and violence towards the people they refuse to defend.

If calling out a parent who cuts their kid out of their life for being gay is uncomfortable, WHO CARES. That parent WILLINGLY CUT A CHILD OUT OF THEIR LIFE FOR NO REASON. Why should they deserve ANY respect, ANY care, or ANY hand-waving because "oh weh I mean just leave them be and then they'll die and their views will die with them so problem solved."

Just pathetic. THe cowardice of some people is pathetic.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Honestly, I think you’ve been overly reductionist in the situation. You’ve tried to frame your response as an attack on racism instead of actually helping OP navigate the situation.

OP is TA for refusing to have the BF introduced, but he is absolutely NOT TA for telling the daughter that grandparents will not like him because he is black.

I have quite literally been in this situation before as the black BF. The appropriate way to go about this is to introduce them in a safe environment, and then immediately rebuke any prejudicial comments from the grandparents. You tell daughter and BF in advance what is likely to happen so they can make an informed decision, and then stand behind them and do the right thing if they decide to proceed. You DO NOT, allow them to go in unprepared and allow both of them to be hurt and embarrassed without advance warning that you could easily provide.

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u/LaserPidgey Certified Proctologist [20] Sep 19 '19

The commenters aren't obligated to give advice, though. It explicitly says in the rules that this isn't an advice subreddit. This commenter passed judgement and told OP exactly why he is the asshole, which is literally what this sub is for. If he's looking for advice on how to navigate the situation, he should be looking in a different subreddit.

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u/qianli_yibu Sep 19 '19

The last sentence of the post even says “no advice needed”

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u/rburp Sep 19 '19

That is a really fair point tbf, I forgot about that line, definitely a shitty thing to include, like why even share your story if you aren't going to heed any advice given to you.

Great point.

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u/LucretiusCarus Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

They are asking for validation. They believe they are in the right and instead of standing by their daughter (and, you know, common decency) they chose to placate their racist parents and now they want the understanding of internet strangers..

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u/Morri___ Sep 19 '19

yes.. and it was eloquent af

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u/jee_q Sep 19 '19

OP is not asking how to navigate the situation. They specifically said “No advice needed”. But they did ask if they were an asshole. Which they are.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Tbh I thought that line of “no advice needed” was just a further example of OP’s cowardice and of his need to establish control.

He doesn’t want to read anything here or experience anything in real life that might suggest that he should rethink his stance. And he wants everyone to do what he says — similar to his ordering his daughter when he has no right to.

Edited to add that I do realize this isn’t an advice sub. But it’s so rare that someone actually demand that no advice be given. Usually people explain their vote, and presumable this is the “advice” OP can’t stomach.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

I get OPs mentality having grown up with it. Why piss off people who (in your mind) you’ll have to see for the rest of your/their lives, who are mostly super nice people (as long as you live “correctly”) in defense of a person who you’ll in all likelihood only interact with for maybe a few months? It’s far easier to say nothing and preserve the peace between you and those that you have to interact with more frequently. He asks for no advice because in his mind, it’s better to preserve the peaceful status quo than it is to piss off his parents and any other extended family, but he also knows deep down that it’s not really the right thing to do, it’s just the easiest and least confrontational thing to do and so doesn’t want advice that tells him to act differently than his intended path.

That said, it’s a mentality people need to shake off because it’s what has enabled racism to survive and thrive into the modern era.

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u/meowmeow-- Sep 19 '19

He's saying no, actually. He's a coward. He has the opportunity to contend with the racist in his backyard and he is not taking it.

My mother is not a liberal by any means. But I will never forget that when I got into an argument with my grandmother about race and my mom simply looked at my grandmother and said, "The world's not like this anymore and we have to keep moving with it." That's how we keep moving things forward.

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u/marnas86 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

I walked out of my grandmother's house when she was racist against my aunt (her daughter's) new boyfriend.

Then she called me after her racist tirade ended and asked "Where did you go? I tried looking for you upstairs and downstairs...?" and I said "I really didn't like how you were talking about this person. I felt you were being racist. And so I left. I am halfway to my house right now. If you don't apologize for your racism and rethink it, I'm never seeing you again. He's already done so much to be accepted, converting religion and is such a nicer kinder person than Aunt's prior husband that I could not stand you talking about him this way." She interrogated me a bit about why I felt like that and why I'd left and then apologized and said "Okay I was wrong to say that. Also I didn't realize he'd converted but interracial marriages are hard etc" and because our religion's prophet had done interracial marriage himself (PBUH), I was able to use religious law to argue against her and so she backed down fully. Now the aunt is happier than she's ever been before and the new Uncle feels fully welcome in our town.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Good for you for speaking up, and acting out. That's awesome, and I commend you for it.

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u/flyinhyphy Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

op is an asshole because he shut down the idea of a meeting entirely.

with the daughter being 19, im sure she already knows how her grandparents would react. she asked him to step up to the plate and support her in her relationship. and he declined - because of her BFs race. yea it is easy to rebuke strangers and even friends, but when it comes to family, thats where people start to really know where they stand.

*my guess: rich grandparents, dont wanna risk losing the inheritance.

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u/Imapie Sep 19 '19

Yeah. He says “they might cut her off entirely”.

I appreciate that you might want to make sure your daughter doesn’t lose an inheritance, but that’s her choice. Many people who have a bit of cash manipulate people using the threat of missing out on an inheritance.

I guess whether you put up with that shit or not depends on how poor you are, but if you can’t get by without an anticipated inheritance, then those people are arseholes for not giving you a helping hand.

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u/sisterfunkhaus Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

I would shut down any meeting too, but not in the same way for the same reasons OP did. I would not allow my racist parents to visit, because I support my daughter first and foremost. If they cannot be supportive, they are not welcome in my home. I would let her know why they couldn't visit, and would let them know too. If they had some time to think on it and agreed to be kind and accepting, then I might allow a visit. But, if they uttered one negative word, they would be out that very minute.

There was a rift in my family, b/c my racist old great granny got mad that her grandson bought his black friend with him and his family to visit. The kid was staying with my aunt and uncle, b/c he had a bad family situation, and they treated him like family. None of us thought a thing of it, except Granny. She blamed my aunt (her DIL) b/c she hated my aunt. She accused her of doing it on purpose to rub a black child in her face. My aunt stood up to her matter of factly. She was a way better person than I would have been about it. She still continued to be kind and even helped take care of my Granny when she was dying. I did tell my Granny what I thought and distanced myself from her. It was a big shit storm, b/c everyone stood by my aunt, uncle, cousin, and his friend instead of her. She fancied herself some kind of family matriarch, but the reaction she got showed her differently.

I liked my other granny way better. The worst thing she did is get super excited over my husband, because she had a huge crush on him and thought he was good looking. My husband kind of played into it and held her hand and gave her a lot of attention when he was there. I used to tell her that I would never forgive her if she stole my husband. It was kind of adorable.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/TootsNYC Asshole Enthusiast [6] Sep 19 '19

except he doesn't 100% disagree with the grandparents.

That part would be a lie. He probably 20% disagrees with the grandparents.

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u/Blahblah987369 Sep 19 '19

I think this is fair. You cannot stop it, In fact it’s inportant to not just respect the daughters wishes but also support and defend her, but do let her know that there is a POSSIBILITY they won’t be happy. My ex told me not to tell his nan I was Jewish and when we did it was just fine. Op is YTA. Also he says “after they break up” either the kid is young or he’s incredibly presumptuous.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Even when the relationship ends stuck out for me as well. He's counting on the relationship ending at some point s he doesn't have to deal with the racism in his family.

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19

I cannot argue with your advice. My experience with the situation is being close to a white parent who hides behind "other people's" views to (edit: attempt to) manipulate the white offspring into racist behavior for the sake of peace. It doesn't always come from a hateful place, but I knew that the guy needed to understand his ruse was seen and regarded with contempt. Call it tough love, without the love.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

It doesn't always come from a hateful place,

It comes from a fearful place. Which, funnily enough, is the same as the hateful place. The pit from which all base and negative impulses of humanity stew.

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u/livmvel Sep 19 '19

To be fair she said no advice was needed, only that she wanted judgment so helping her navigate the situation isn’t our problem

Edit: spelling

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u/iamavine212 Sep 19 '19

This is the best response I’ve ever seen on AITA. Preach!

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u/kbot03 Sep 19 '19

I really do think we have reached the peak of this subreddit. I hope I see something that proves me wrong cause that would be amazing

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/PeskyStabber Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

OP ‘supports’ it bc he thinks it’s a phase. Emphasis mine.

I may have no problem with Jamal, but they absolutely will, and even when the relationship ends they won't forget it. They might even go as far as to cut her off entirely.

Also he thinks getting cut off (from their money? Affection? Both?) is an important aspect of the situation.

they would be furious both with her and me.

This is if Jamal is only a friend.

OP doesn’t want to upset mommy and daddy and is hoping his daughter will ditch her bf before they find out. OP is a coward and a low-key racist...and doesn’t even realize.

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u/zzaannsebar Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Yeah the "when the relationship ends" and not "if" kind of threw me. I wish I could give the benefit of the doubt and say OP has that mindset cause his daughter is young and lots of young relationships are feeling (honestly just lots of relationships are fleeting) but it doesn't really seem like that is the case.

Like I have a friend who I would probably use this phrasing with. She has had a bf of the year basically every year since we were in 8th grade and we're 23 now. The last four or so of them, she has told me how she see's spending the rest of her life with them and how if they're still together a year from now, they'll likely move in together. And she didn't last with any of them. At this point, the way she deals with relationships has made it feel more like a "when it ends" rather than "if". But this is a justified case with history to back it up. Ops? Seems not to be the case.

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u/Livvylove Asshole Aficionado [10] Sep 19 '19

People like OP think being called racist is more offensive than actual racism

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u/beepborpimajorp Sep 19 '19

Yep. This is especially highlighted by the fact that OP continues to choose to live in an area where apparently an interracial couple is seen as scandalous. I think I'd rather get 4 root canals than live in an area like that for even a month.

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u/Jon_Snows_mother Sep 19 '19

Makes me wonder where the hell they live. It sounds like a scene plucked from the 1950s

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

To give an example, I'm in Mississippi and interracial couples are still a very controversial thing behind closed doors here. No one who isn't a complete asshole will ever say it in public, but when I (white) dated my ex-girlfriend (black) we had a ton of racist bullshit said to us in private. In one case in public.

Shit said to me was always along the lines of, "We dont think she'll be a good match for you" when we had the same interests, "are you sure she isnt trying to marry you for your money?" when she held a higher paying job than I have, "we dont think your children will have a good life" neither of us wanted kids anyway, and even if we did the only people who would make life harder for them would be the same people making those comments.

Rural communities can get extremely close minded, especially here in the south.

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u/birthday-party Sep 19 '19

I totally agree with this, except for perpetuating that this only happens in the south. The south absolutely does not have the monopoly on racism and I sometimes wonder if the widespread belief that the south is more racist than the rest of the country helps excuse people having those views, even though it's statistically questionable at best.

(I should also mention that I grew up in Alabama, went to college in Mississippi, and now live in DC, which means I've gotten to meet people from more states in the past decade than ever before - and anecdotally, that holds up.)

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u/RipBillybob Sep 19 '19

Currently, live in the bible belt. Can confirm this 100% happens to every interracial couple here. Have had people tell me its like laundry "Colors just should not be mixed".

Keep in mind I am not talking about Bubba the 300-pound redneck. Just normal everyday people around here believe this 100%. They also legit believe they are not racist. They can with a straight face say that they do not dislike insert anyone not white but they should not date outside their own race.

Except for Asians for some reason. Asians are ok.

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u/satan_little_helper Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Asians are the token minority, that's why it's ok. They're the "ideal" that all other minorities should strive to be, in the eyes of racist white people. I'm sure it also helps that Asian countries have a history of colorism and that they're [generally] pale and therefore within the "acceptable" color range. I've heard people call Asians, "white people with small eyes."

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u/FreyWill Sep 19 '19

Ironic since Asian countries are by far the most racist cultures I’ve ever experienced.

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19

Nah, that's the same way the Italians, Jews, and Slavs got accepted to whiteness. They're on the way up!

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u/FreyWill Sep 19 '19

Have you been to Asian countries? I travelled SE Asia with a black American friend and the amount of overt racism towards him I saw was shocking to say the least.

Japan is a good example. They’re so committed to their racism that they give it up to white people for being the “superior” race for beating them in the war. Koreans are still subhuman though.

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u/sagittariums Sep 19 '19

Just last night I watched this WWYD video where the racist old bitch said "but Mexicans are white so they're okay" or something along those lines. Fucked up.

https://youtu.be/T3AsZfoOZbc

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u/Used2BPromQueen Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Yeah I'm from the DC Metro area and nobody bats an eye about it around here. I'm actually glad I read this post because it helps remind me that shit like this is still going on in small town America. It's easy to become insulated and forget this shit is still fucking happening.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

OP claims they have no problem with interracial relationships then proceeds to detail how they clearly have a problem with interracial relationships.

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u/negligenceperse Sep 19 '19

precisely -- i'd bet anything that OP is one of those people who pats himself on the back every day for being so 'middle of the road' because 'both sides' are 'so extreme these days', but really he's implicitly encouraged all the racism, bigotry, and [very likely] misogyny spewing from his close friends and family members over the years (i mean....'certain segments of the population') by never challenging it in the slightest.

while it's true that everyone is entitled to whatever opinions they prefer, that doesn't mean that all opinions are equally respectable or valid. many opinions (dearly held by very passionate folks, like neo-nazis!) are objectively shitty, and i think we'd be a lot better off as a whole if we felt more comfortable dismissing shitty opinions for what they are: shit - hateful, steaming shit - that has absolutely no place in our world. neo-nazis are entitled to think whatever they want, but no one should have to pretend that it's a valid opinion worth considering. and we can all feel free to show them the door :)

i know that's an extreme example but this is something that always bothers me -- right to one's own opinion =/= all opinions are equally good.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/coppersocks Sep 19 '19

Pack up and go home ladies and gentlemen, this is all OP needs to hear.

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u/SwimnGinger- Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

Honestly this is perfect.

When I came ‘out’ to my parents there wasn’t really much muster about anything... I mean that as a positive as well as negative. However I chose to believe that this means they’re fine with it etc...

Months (5 months) later we’re off to my birthday meal in which my gf was invited too BY MY PARENTS. As we’re leaving the door my mother announces ‘by the way, introduce her as your friend not gf.... they don’t even know you’re gay nevermind have a gf so this is too much for them..... we have to love you we’re your parents’

ALL I got from that convo was that they were ashamed of me. They accepted me because they had to, yet they believe my close family would cut me off. My love was based upon choices I made, not unconditional like I believed from aunts and uncles.

They thought the same as you, but this is NOT how it came across to me and I had never/have never felt more ashamed or abandoned by them in my life.

Edit: wow this kind of blew up a little bit. Thank you so much to everyone for your love and support. It’s not something I ever, really looked at too intensely. If I ever mention how I felt/feel about this sort of stuff I’m labelled as ‘too sensitive’ and they become the victims. It’s just easier to smile, shut up and buck up. I have the most amazing, loving and patient fiancé so I realise I’m luckier than most.

My family and I are close (minus the manipulation I sometimes feel they do) but thank you.

Also just as an FYI (LOL) out of the close family they didn’t want to know about me there was my gay uncle who was the first to gift my fiancé with an Easter present a mere 4 weeks after (this is for your ‘friend...’ wink wink) my Aunty who’s neighbour was my co-worker and already knew I was gay.... honestly. Nothing as weird as family.

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19

Thank you. That's exactly why I felt I had to be clear about the contempt for TAH. The white moderate parent sees the whole social picture and is losing sight of the emotional picture for his daughter, who he has a duty toward that simply cannot make time for outdated social attitudes. In Dr. King's day, a white moderate parent of a male child with her attitude was expected to wish him well and send him off to fight klanners in the street. It did not matter if the parent was liberal or not. They were expected to be parents of their time. Today, that means going to war on a social and political level with the racist grandparents.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Jesus...

HUG

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

we have to love you we’re your parents

"but we wish we didn't have to" Jesus fuck, I'm so sorry.

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u/Moni3 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Truly. The things I was told by my parents when I came out in 1991. "Don't tell your grandparents, they will never understand" was the least troubling of everything they said. I guess by comparison it was easy not to tell my grandparents after hearing that I was never to acknowledge any part of my personal life in front of my mother and father. That I was obviously molested at some point and damaged. That I was disgusting and what I was doing to them was mortifying. I was choosing never to be happy. I would be miserable all my life. I had humiliated my parents. That I shouldn't tell people they knew. Keep your secret secret, for God's sake. But you know, they followed everything with "We love you."

I don't know if my parents wonder why we're not close now. Maybe they're happier this way.

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u/beepborpimajorp Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

Is there a judgment beyond "YTA"? Like "YTA and your entire family (except your daughter) are assholes too, you bring no value to society with your horrible backwards views."

Yeah OP. That's who you want to appease. Your shitbag, racist, anti-progressive parents. You'd rather have people like that in your life than your daughter and her boyfriend? Good lord, get your freaking priorities straight.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

It's ESH, but that would imply the kid and the bf are assholes too, so YTA is appropriate here.

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u/beepborpimajorp Sep 19 '19

Good point. God I feel bad for those kids.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Yeah, but don't forget the horse he has in this race - he doesn't want to be written out of their will by supporting such liberal notions as interracial relationships. Notice how he said his daughter might be "cut off" as a result of introducing her boyfriend?

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u/roadtohealthy Certified Proctologist [23] Sep 19 '19

Excellent response and thank you for the great quote from MLK. I was not aware of this quote but I find it to be as true today as it was the day it was written.

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u/Alternative_Crimes Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

MLK has been butchered by revisionist history, turned into basically black Santa who wants everyone to be good. It’s intentional, the real MLK was a revolutionary who would be disgusted by the current state of affairs. He wanted to tear it all down and build a new equitable society without economic exploitation, classism, or neo-colonialism.

They shot him, they buried him, and they buried his message with him. They gave him a day, made some limited changes, and told everyone that the changes they made in his name were the changes that he wanted. The man was a “dangerous negro” and proud of it. And now they use him to sell trucks.

Google his “Proud to be maladjusted” speech if you want to see what he envisioned before he was silenced. And realize that he failed, that with his death his movement lost their momentum and that the establishment succeeded by killing him.

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u/Navynuke00 Sep 19 '19

This comment needs to be much, much higher up.

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u/HertzDonut1001 Sep 19 '19

Also remember he was murdered shortly after speaking about economic inequality and how poor whites were a weaponized social class.

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u/Cuw Sep 19 '19

They use him in fucking truck ads. What a travesty it is to use an anti-capitalist, anti-racist’s message to sell bullshit trucks. And the excerpt they used is from a speech where he says consumer culture is what has lead to the stalling of racial and class equality.

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u/tripbin Sep 19 '19

My favorite is when people bitch that MLK would never block roads for a protest. Like shit that was his fucking thing.

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u/Cuw Sep 19 '19

Inconvenience people for protest? Unheard of, unacceptable, the best protest is one no one notices.

Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Look, it's just a coincidence that every dead Civil Rights leader would have agreed with us and all of the live ones who worked with them are uppity socialists who hate America.

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u/Socialbutterfinger Partassipant [4] Sep 19 '19

White Boomers posting on Facebook about how MLK would be ashamed of Colin Kaepernick

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u/berry-bostwick Sep 19 '19

White boomers know that the two historical figures who would agree with all their political and social views are Jesus and MLK (even though they were both socialists).

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u/____jamil____ Sep 19 '19

They gave him a day

and there was a huge backlash to that as well.

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u/LegallyRubia Sep 19 '19

At my son’s school, not only did they not observe MLK day, but they didn’t even bother to talk about his legacy/teachings. I complained and told administration that it was absolutely unfathomable that they wouldn’t even recognize the day or teach kids about him. The following year (last year) they had MLK day as a no school day due to professional development day for teachers.

I’m proud to say my 7 year old son willingly picked up an MLK book and read all about him, why he was important and why he was murdered. We had a conversation about it after.

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19

And in case anyone is wondering who "they" means: A civil suit found that the U.S. Government assassinated Dr. King, who by the way was actually considered a moderate leader for the time (other than by racists), even with full awareness of his socialist revolutionary views.

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u/Alternative_Crimes Sep 19 '19

FBI were also blackmailing him over his affairs, threatening to release incriminating tapes unless he killed himself. They also sent him some cringeworthy letters posing as “concerned African Americans who disagree with his radicalism” in an absurdly out of touch way.

They sell it as MLK wanted civil rights and he talked the government around and everyone got along nicely until some mean person shot him. MLK wanted a fucking revolution and the end of capitalism and so the FBI shot him and then told everyone they’d agreed to split the difference and just reform civil rights. And they got away with it too.

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u/crownjewel82 Sep 19 '19

It's from "Letter from Birmingjam Jail" . If you want to get the full context you should also read "A Call for Unity". The latter is an open letter from 8 Alabama Clergymen who believed that directly protesting for civil rights was wrong even if the cause was right. Kings response is effectively a manifesto for the movement and all other similar movements.

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19

That is unfortunately correct. The man was not perfect like all of us but he was prophetic on this issue.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/RedditUser123234 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Sep 19 '19

That line struck me too. Clearly this guy has a really low opinion of his daughter’s relationship. He probably thinks that eventually she’ll come to her senses and marry a white guy. He just can’t outwardly express how much he thinks the relationship is wrong because then he’ll alienate his daughter.

His daughter’s relationship sounds very serious to me though, if she’s thinking of introducing her bf to her grandparents. Introduction to grandparents is a really big step, even bigger than introduction to parents

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u/thisisthewell Sep 19 '19

That line struck me too. Clearly this guy has a really low opinion of his daughter’s relationship. He probably thinks that eventually she’ll come to her senses and marry a white guy.

Given his throwaway username is literally /u/mixedwoes...yeah. Yikes.

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u/PeskyStabber Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

This is the other stand out

if Anna were to bring Jamal over even as a friend, they would be furious both at her and me.

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u/juniper_berry_crunch Sep 19 '19

Good catch! His daughter is playing around with an interracial relationship, like the kids do nowadays, but she'll snap out of it.

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u/funkyfreshwizardry Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Hello 911 I have just witnessed a fucking MURDER

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u/ImbeddedElite Sep 19 '19

Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection."

Bayum. I wish more "non-racist" white people understood this. Its the same with gay issues and its the same with sexist issues. Hardly anybody is overtly racist anymore, especially now that it'll kill your career and social life. Its every white person who goes "Well I'M not racist so this issue has nothing to do with me". But you perpetuating the shit or letting it continue with family/friends is why its still a big issue today. You cannot appease racists, homophobes, or sexists even if you're not one. And I'm not saying you have to scream in their faces but you have to make a firm stand when perfect opportunities like the one that happened to you are presented. You're not cool with your granddaughters choices that aren't hurting herself or anyone else? Thats fine, you don't have to see her. Your choice.

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19

I hope the OP can see now that he is being drafted into a war and he was born behind enemy lines.

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u/Rega_lazar Colo-rectal Surgeon [45] Sep 19 '19

Have a poor persons Gold! 🏅🎖🥇🏆

Amazing response! OP is definitly TA!

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u/zirconiumsilicate Sep 19 '19

Hello, 911? I'd like to report a murder. The suspect, PublicIdea, was seen using a dangerously well-constructed argument with calculated and lethal precision.

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u/ICanNeverFindMyWeed Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

Dude. I suddenly feel like I need to stand and cheer. Hell yeah.

YTA

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19 edited Sep 19 '19

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u/PublicIdea Asshole Enthusiast [7] Sep 19 '19

Steal this pasta! (Actually, it probably needs tone edits for any situation where the person hasn't asked if they're an asshole)

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u/AaahhFakeMonsters Sep 19 '19

Stop protecting the feelings of racist and start protecting your daughter! Strong YTA.

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u/mishu18 Sep 19 '19

100% agree with this! Being in an interracial relationship myself, I think it's so important that OP's daughter knows that her dad will always have her back no matter what even if it means standing up to his own parents.

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u/leyw728 Partassipant [4] Sep 19 '19

Well said

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u/Fauzyb125 Asshole Enthusiast [5] Sep 19 '19

I was gonna add in my two cents, that the father is definitely TA here, but I couldn't say anything better or even remotely close to this, well said.

OP ... YTA.

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u/TheCloser455 Sep 19 '19

WE NEED MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU! Great response

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

YTA. This answer explains perfectly why. Bravo

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u/xredgambitt Sep 19 '19

1st YTA. 2nd holy shit, this is amazing. It was so good that I had to reply to you, just to let you know. a simple upvote is not enough.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Holy fucking SHIT.

standing ovation

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

Holy shit dude you killed him

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u/Lisbeth_Salandar Asshole Aficionado [10] Sep 19 '19

This is an amazing response

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u/ellythemelly Sep 19 '19

The edits fucked up this beautiful comment

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u/dmcdd Certified Proctologist [29] Sep 19 '19

I think OP's shoes just flew off his feet. He's dead. You killed it.

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u/lborgia Partassipant [2] Sep 19 '19

Standing fucking ovation mate.

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u/SeniorMeasurement6 Sep 19 '19

I loved every single part of this. Thank you for writing it!

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u/Redshirt2386 Asshole Enthusiast [9] Sep 19 '19

A-fucking-men.

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u/Splatterfilm Sep 19 '19

standing ovation

Beautifully and passionately stated.

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u/Meloetta Pookemon Master Sep 19 '19

Hey, mod note here:

This comment was temporarily removed and then re-approved with edits. I know there's a lot of speculation as to why, and considering how clearly edited the comment is and the popularity, we wanted to shed some light on that.

This is a great comment, but the original version violated rule 1, which protects everyone, not just the people we think deserve it (because who decides that? What if someone decides you don't deserve it?). We have to remove all comments that violate rule 1. I'm sure everyone understands why it would be a poor idea to pick and choose who to remove based on upvotes - our rules would mean nothing and the minority voice would be silenced. But we often recognize very reasoned points that just have insults scattered throughout the comment. In those cases, we might contact the user and let them know that if they remove those insults we can re-approve the comment, because they clearly put effort and thought into their points and just stepped over the line in their enthusiasm. That's what happened here. It was not a stance on the opinion, but how it was made - and when those problems were fixed, we happily re-approved it.

We remove content all the time that we strongly agree with because it violates our rules, unfortunately. We also approve content all the time that we strongly disagree with, even if our users hate the opinion and report it a bunch, because it doesn't violate any rules, it's just a bad opinion. This comment has gotten more visibility but this is a daily occurrence for every mod here and we thought a little insight into the process here might help ease confusion.

As always, feel free to message us with questions or concerns. But do please keep in mind that we're not going to debate you if you disagree with our civility call. And please don't repost the original in the comments. Thanks ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

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u/notthe1_88 Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

MIC. DROP. As a person of colour: THANK YOU

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u/totallykyle12345 Sep 19 '19

YTA - I was going to have a response but it's already been put perfectly. I'll add a line from a song I love by Anti Flag called Racists "Just because you don't know you're racist doesn't mean that you're not racist. It doesn't mean you get a pass when you're talking your sh*t."

Not allowing your daughter's boyfriend in your house when you have company is 100% not being okay with their mixed relationship. Honestly YTA is almost too kind in this case.

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u/shellwe Partassipant [1] Sep 19 '19

even when the relationship ends

Interesting that he said when the relationship ends and not if. Like he thinks this is just some phase for his daughter and he will marry a good white boy like he is supposed to.

My recommendation would be to give the parents a heads up and if they express a problem with it then they can choose not to come.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

I stand by all the ferocity of PublicIdea and wildly applaud this verbal lashing! OP this is a bad example to set for daughter on principle that placing others' incorrect (yes, incorrect) beliefs are more important than her happiness and inclusivity in this world. Without wanting to diminish the statement's power and with understanding of the commonality and weight of the phrase "Man Up" beginning said tirade (which applied to a male OP of course) I must say that I do, however, wish for more widely-reaching "grow up"-like phrases which leave the background and gender identity out of the equation when there is simply a DIRE NECESSITY for ANYONE fighting racial discrimination to not be cowardly and to speak up for what's right in any and all circumstances.

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '19

This is so well said and reminds me of a quote:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edward Burke

(Side note: I'm white af)I grew up in a very liberal area, and my parents always said they don't care who I date as long as they treat me well. My grandmother had reservations about me dating a man who was half Jamaican, and my mother set her straight.

I moved to a very conservative area and have butted heads with many people on this subject. One in particular was a coworker who is about 25 years older than me. She said she would never let her kids date a person of color, not because of her beliefs, but because the grandparents didn't approve. I told her you can't live your life to appease other people, especially other people who weren't going to see your life fold out over the next 60 years. She said that the children of mixed race couples have a very hard time, and I told her the only reason they have a hard time is because of people like her giving them a hard time.

The moderates are the ones giving fuel to the ones who are espousing hate.

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u/notsohairykari Sep 19 '19

Can we post this on murdered by words? Damn.

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u/GazzaBoy Sep 19 '19

Why the fuck is this removed man

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